176: The Rise of Anime in the West

Anime has hit the mainstream and we're itching to discuss the art form in depth and get to the bottom of why it's been such a hit in the western world.

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Transcript

00:01:00.921 --> 00:01:03.181
Diego: Welcome to Geekology 101.

00:01:03.181 --> 00:01:04.361
Diego: My name is Diego.

00:01:04.381 --> 00:01:05.921
Joshua: And my name is Joshua.

00:01:06.261 --> 00:01:10.841
Diego: And today we're going to be talking about the rise of anime in the West.

00:01:11.701 --> 00:01:19.381
Diego: Anime is something that we both have an appreciation for, I would say depending on the show, a love for.

00:01:20.261 --> 00:01:24.681
Diego: And it's something that you have been watching since we were pretty tiny, a little tiny Jit.

00:01:24.881 --> 00:01:25.741
Joshua: I was a little Jit.

00:01:25.901 --> 00:01:26.221
Diego: Yeah.

00:01:26.521 --> 00:01:28.781
Diego: And I've been watching this since I was a tiny Jit as well.

00:01:29.061 --> 00:01:30.701
Diego: Said that I was less of a Jit than you.

00:01:31.581 --> 00:01:32.841
Joshua: I don't know if that's true.

00:01:32.941 --> 00:01:33.581
Diego: Absolutely.

00:01:33.681 --> 00:01:34.461
Joshua: Okay, well.

00:01:34.781 --> 00:01:35.081
Joshua: Yeah.

00:01:35.221 --> 00:01:40.661
Diego: Anyway, listen, the whole, let's just forget about that song that I sang at the beginning.

00:01:40.881 --> 00:01:42.961
Joshua: It was a song.

00:01:43.121 --> 00:01:43.461
Diego: Yeah.

00:01:43.801 --> 00:01:45.481
Diego: It was pretty, pretty sad.

00:01:45.701 --> 00:01:50.301
Diego: Also kind of sad how they changed the names in that anime, the Captain Tsubasa anime.

00:01:51.321 --> 00:01:57.841
Diego: Like, first of all, the name of the show was Captain Tsubasa, you know, in the original Japanese name.

00:01:57.881 --> 00:02:00.401
Joshua: And they changed it to Super Champions, basically.

00:02:00.421 --> 00:02:01.521
Diego: Yeah, Super Campeones.

00:02:02.161 --> 00:02:04.241
Joshua: Just has nothing to do with the name.

00:02:04.261 --> 00:02:05.061
Diego: Nothing whatsoever.

00:02:05.441 --> 00:02:08.021
Diego: And then they changed the actual names of the characters.

00:02:08.041 --> 00:02:14.481
Diego: Like, I forget the, I forget the guy's like first name, but his last name was Tsubasa, the lead character.

00:02:14.981 --> 00:02:19.241
Diego: And then in Spanish, his name, they changed it to Oliver Adam.

00:02:20.121 --> 00:02:20.781
Joshua: Oliver?

00:02:20.981 --> 00:02:21.401
Diego: Oliver.

00:02:21.781 --> 00:02:22.121
Joshua: Adam.

00:02:22.361 --> 00:02:23.321
Diego: Oliver Adam.

00:02:23.741 --> 00:02:24.061
Joshua: Yes.

00:02:24.341 --> 00:02:26.481
Joshua: So, Adam to Tsubasa.

00:02:26.741 --> 00:02:27.061
Diego: Yeah.

00:02:27.501 --> 00:02:29.961
Diego: And then just like that, every other name was changed.

00:02:30.141 --> 00:02:30.521
Diego: Why?

00:02:31.461 --> 00:02:37.861
Diego: Maybe they just didn't think that us little Hispanic kids would, Colombian kids wouldn't be able to pronounce it properly, Adam, I have no clue.

00:02:38.141 --> 00:02:46.101
Diego: But the anime was dope, and it made a whole generation of children want to go play soccer, even if they were not naturally gifted for soccer.

00:02:46.581 --> 00:02:51.221
Diego: I'm speaking mostly about myself, because I was an embarrassment to Colombians everywhere.

00:02:51.341 --> 00:02:51.701
Joshua: Wow.

00:02:51.721 --> 00:02:52.841
Diego: Because I sucked at soccer.

00:02:52.941 --> 00:02:53.301
Joshua: Wow.

00:02:53.881 --> 00:02:55.281
Diego: I was a sucker, if you will.

00:02:56.121 --> 00:02:56.701
Diego: That sucked.

00:02:56.821 --> 00:02:58.301
Diego: Anyway, let's get into this episode.

00:02:58.321 --> 00:03:03.321
Diego: So anime, man, anime goes way back.

00:03:04.001 --> 00:03:04.301
Diego: Yeah.

00:03:04.681 --> 00:03:19.881
Diego: Anime goes way back to before World War II, and during World War II, like during those years, I'm talking about like the 1930s, 1940s, during those years, anime was very much trying to like copy what the West was doing with animation.

00:03:19.961 --> 00:03:20.221
Diego: Yeah.

00:03:20.301 --> 00:03:21.701
Joshua: There wasn't a lot of creativity.

00:03:21.821 --> 00:03:22.741
Diego: Yeah, not really.

00:03:22.761 --> 00:03:23.781
Diego: Nothing too distinctive.

00:03:23.801 --> 00:03:26.841
Diego: And again, it was just like them trying to recreate the style of that.

00:03:27.481 --> 00:03:35.261
Diego: And then of course, during World War II, Japan was part of the Axis Pact, right, which was like, you know, Germany and Japan and Italy.

00:03:35.781 --> 00:03:42.581
Diego: And so, you know, there was a lot of propaganda built into the animated stuff that was coming out of Japan during those years.

00:03:43.021 --> 00:03:46.341
Diego: But then after World War II, I think it was what, like the 1950s was it?

00:03:47.221 --> 00:03:50.521
Diego: When toy animation came into play.

00:03:50.921 --> 00:04:00.201
Joshua: I didn't know that like, in animation studio, that's like still very active today, was like one of the founders or the founder, basically.

00:04:02.061 --> 00:04:03.701
Diego: It used to be called something else.

00:04:03.781 --> 00:04:06.661
Joshua: It was like Japanese animation studio.

00:04:07.281 --> 00:04:12.161
Diego: And then it was bought out by Toei, which used to be, I guess, like a toy manufacturer only.

00:04:12.601 --> 00:04:19.781
Diego: And then they created toy animation and absorbed that studio and then started putting out some stuff.

00:04:20.041 --> 00:04:29.661
Diego: So when it comes to recognizable anime, though, Japanese anime, one of the first ones that stands out is the Astro Boy in the 1960s.

00:04:29.681 --> 00:04:43.921
Diego: The 1960s probably had the majority of what would be considered old school anime, where you could kind of see how it was starting to take shape into something similar to what we know as anime today.

00:04:44.081 --> 00:04:44.441
Joshua: Yeah.

00:04:44.621 --> 00:04:46.381
Diego: What's the oldest anime that you remember?

00:04:47.221 --> 00:04:48.661
Joshua: That, like, I know of?

00:04:48.741 --> 00:04:49.101
Diego: Yeah.

00:04:50.601 --> 00:04:54.181
Joshua: Um, well, I mean, probably Astro Boy.

00:04:54.341 --> 00:04:54.901
Diego: Astro Boy?

00:04:55.001 --> 00:04:55.321
Joshua: Yeah.

00:04:55.961 --> 00:04:58.821
Diego: Like, that you could remember, like, how it looked and stuff?

00:04:59.001 --> 00:05:02.361
Joshua: Yeah, because I, like, I remember what Astro Boy looks like.

00:05:02.361 --> 00:05:06.081
Joshua: I remember, like, the style of, like, what the character actually looks like.

00:05:06.161 --> 00:05:06.521
Diego: Yeah.

00:05:06.541 --> 00:05:07.621
Joshua: And, like, the boots.

00:05:08.161 --> 00:05:08.881
Diego: The boots?

00:05:09.061 --> 00:05:10.461
Joshua: The big red boots.

00:05:10.701 --> 00:05:11.841
Diego: That turned into rockets?

00:05:12.001 --> 00:05:12.381
Diego: Yeah.

00:05:12.481 --> 00:05:13.561
Diego: Yeah, it's kind of convenient.

00:05:14.501 --> 00:05:19.741
Diego: Then, in the 1970s, you had stuff like Mobile Suit Gundam that came out in 1979, to be specific.

00:05:20.261 --> 00:05:22.561
Joshua: There's still Gundam stuff released today.

00:05:22.581 --> 00:05:23.421
Diego: Still, yeah.

00:05:23.901 --> 00:05:24.261
Diego: Yeah.

00:05:24.561 --> 00:05:32.681
Diego: And you could tell why it was pretty revolutionary, because, like, I mean, it was very different.

00:05:32.701 --> 00:05:35.301
Diego: It wasn't, you know, like, superpowered individuals.

00:05:35.321 --> 00:05:38.541
Diego: It was all, you know, robotic technology, futuristic.

00:05:38.561 --> 00:05:39.481
Diego: It was outer space.

00:05:39.901 --> 00:05:44.161
Joshua: It was it was one of the founders of the the Robo Mech.

00:05:44.221 --> 00:05:44.641
Joshua: Yeah.

00:05:44.821 --> 00:05:45.681
Joshua: The of the Mech.

00:05:45.801 --> 00:05:46.221
Diego: Yeah.

00:05:46.561 --> 00:05:48.061
Diego: Just kind of like a subgenre.

00:05:48.181 --> 00:05:48.581
Joshua: Yeah.

00:05:48.761 --> 00:05:49.401
Diego: Of anime.

00:05:49.421 --> 00:05:50.481
Diego: Yeah.

00:05:50.501 --> 00:05:53.161
Diego: That which would go to spawn many, many different shows, right?

00:05:53.181 --> 00:05:55.861
Diego: Mazinger Z and Voltron and a whole bunch of other things.

00:05:57.241 --> 00:05:59.461
Diego: I didn't see Mobile to Gundam.

00:05:59.601 --> 00:06:02.241
Diego: That one was a little bit pre my time.

00:06:03.121 --> 00:06:08.561
Diego: When I started getting into anime, the one that was around was, what was it again?

00:06:08.701 --> 00:06:12.001
Joshua: It was Gundam Z or...

00:06:12.321 --> 00:06:13.321
Diego: Yeah, something like that.

00:06:13.341 --> 00:06:14.181
Joshua: Yeah.

00:06:15.001 --> 00:06:15.561
Diego: Gundam...

00:06:16.721 --> 00:06:18.241
Joshua: Mobile Suit Gundam Z.

00:06:18.261 --> 00:06:20.561
Diego: Yeah, something like that.

00:06:20.601 --> 00:06:31.741
Diego: And I saw it because it was airing on, I think what was the introduction for a lot of people in my generation to anime, and that was Adult Swim and Toonami.

00:06:32.301 --> 00:06:43.921
Diego: Yeah, it was basically like Cartoon Network at night, like after, I don't know, it was like eight or nine o'clock, it would switch over into Toonami.

00:06:44.661 --> 00:06:46.141
Diego: And Toonami was...

00:06:46.161 --> 00:06:47.761
Diego: This is actually before Adult Swim.

00:06:47.781 --> 00:07:01.321
Diego: Adult Swim came a little bit later, like they changed Cartoon Network to officially be more adult oriented, not just in anime, but Toonami itself was like all anime pretty much.

00:07:02.521 --> 00:07:02.821
Diego: Yeah.

00:07:02.841 --> 00:07:14.001
Diego: So it was like back to back episodes of the most popular animes at the time, like Dragonball Z, like this Gundam show that I was talking about, Cowboy Bebop, that sort of thing.

00:07:14.561 --> 00:07:28.061
Diego: It was, for a lot of us, the most vivid introduction to anime because it was all dubbed, there was nothing subtitled, so it was all made for us, I would say, or at least adapted to us.

00:07:29.061 --> 00:07:42.821
Diego: So anyway, yeah, Gundam, 1970s, then you had stuff in 1980, like, you know, the hugely popular Akira movie, which I think is one of those first things that really broke into the mainstream in the West.

00:07:43.801 --> 00:07:50.821
Diego: It was a very, very well animated movie, the story was interesting, the action was interesting.

00:07:51.421 --> 00:08:02.521
Diego: The animation, I think, was probably a little bit different, it felt a little bit different than, like, all the Japanese, big eye Japanese animation characters that were around up to that point.

00:08:02.541 --> 00:08:18.201
Joshua: And for some reason, every single anime likes copying the one, the one, like, couple frames of Akira on a motorcycle, of him on a motorcycle, like drifting perfectly.

00:08:18.721 --> 00:08:21.501
Joshua: It's a pretty cool shot, but like every anime copies it.

00:08:21.501 --> 00:08:24.641
Diego: Yeah, the action shots in that movie man are fantastic.

00:08:24.801 --> 00:08:25.621
Diego: That's definitely one.

00:08:25.641 --> 00:08:33.701
Diego: I think we're going to need to do a little marathon and watch a few classic anime movies.

00:08:33.861 --> 00:08:34.841
Diego: Yeah, for sure.

00:08:34.861 --> 00:08:36.401
Diego: I want to get your opinion on those.

00:08:36.421 --> 00:08:38.401
Diego: But anyway, yeah, Akira was very, very popular.

00:08:38.421 --> 00:08:41.201
Diego: It did break into the mainstream quite a bit.

00:08:42.141 --> 00:08:44.401
Diego: I remember hearing about it back in the day.

00:08:44.781 --> 00:08:49.381
Diego: Then in the 1990s, you've got, of course, the rise of Pokemon, which was huge.

00:08:49.461 --> 00:08:51.321
Joshua: That's the biggest anime of all time.

00:08:52.161 --> 00:08:54.161
Diego: Yeah, I mean, it has to be, there's no doubt.

00:08:54.901 --> 00:08:57.181
Diego: And it started off as a game, you told me.

00:08:57.201 --> 00:08:57.521
Joshua: Yeah.

00:08:58.541 --> 00:09:08.201
Joshua: I honestly, I mean, I honestly thought that it would have been a manga first and then anime and then game.

00:09:08.601 --> 00:09:11.641
Joshua: But then after a little bit, I learned that the games came first.

00:09:12.381 --> 00:09:17.521
Joshua: And then I didn't know where the trading cards came along in that line.

00:09:18.521 --> 00:09:21.121
Diego: The trading cards, that was pretty huge.

00:09:21.121 --> 00:09:23.301
Diego: Like back then, I remember, I never got into it.

00:09:24.521 --> 00:09:27.981
Diego: It actually took me a while to even give it a shot, the show itself.

00:09:28.381 --> 00:09:29.281
Diego: But I did, though.

00:09:29.281 --> 00:09:32.481
Diego: I did, and I think I did maybe like one season of Pokemon.

00:09:33.061 --> 00:09:36.741
Diego: And I see, I saw the charm, like I saw the, you know, the interest of it.

00:09:36.761 --> 00:09:39.901
Diego: I think it was a, I get why people fell in love with it.

00:09:39.921 --> 00:09:48.561
Diego: But I imagine that the people who played the card game got even more into it because it's like, you know, it was like an interactive way of being part of that world.

00:09:48.621 --> 00:09:54.381
Joshua: I remember we actually watched, like, I don't know what it was.

00:09:54.401 --> 00:09:57.521
Joshua: Maybe it was also a season of the original Pokemon show.

00:09:57.521 --> 00:09:58.321
Diego: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:09:58.341 --> 00:09:59.421
Diego: I think, yeah, you're right.

00:09:59.441 --> 00:09:59.881
Diego: You're right.

00:09:59.901 --> 00:10:02.981
Diego: I did watch it with you and I think your sister.

00:10:03.141 --> 00:10:04.541
Diego: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:10:04.561 --> 00:10:07.181
Diego: I think we have gotten through like one entire season.

00:10:07.201 --> 00:10:10.561
Diego: And I remember we wanted to like watch so that we can watch the movies and stuff.

00:10:10.681 --> 00:10:11.341
Joshua: Mm-hmm.

00:10:11.461 --> 00:10:11.821
Diego: Yeah.

00:10:12.201 --> 00:10:14.361
Diego: But I'm not sure I forget how far we got into that.

00:10:14.721 --> 00:10:15.621
Diego: Can't really remember.

00:10:15.621 --> 00:10:17.621
Diego: But yeah, Pokemon was pretty big.

00:10:17.981 --> 00:10:23.481
Diego: There was a time during the 90s where you also had like Sailor Moon, which came out.

00:10:23.501 --> 00:10:27.421
Diego: I think that Pokemon and Sailor Moon were very, very important for anime in the West.

00:10:27.981 --> 00:10:30.661
Diego: I remember during that time, like I was like a middle school.

00:10:31.721 --> 00:10:39.041
Diego: And it wasn't popular to like anime back then at all.

00:10:39.121 --> 00:10:43.581
Diego: Like, yeah, if you were into anime, you were a geek, you were a nerd.

00:10:44.421 --> 00:10:46.541
Diego: You had the risk of being beaten up at school.

00:10:48.321 --> 00:11:04.741
Diego: I'm just saying, like, if you went out, went to school rocking a Dragon Ball Z shirt on your way to the snack truck after school, across the street from your school, if your school happened to have one of those, which mine did, you might get pushed to the ground.

00:11:04.761 --> 00:11:05.081
Joshua: I don't know.

00:11:05.101 --> 00:11:08.021
Diego: I'm just saying, you might get a little beat up.

00:11:08.661 --> 00:11:12.701
Diego: I never got beat up because I never rocked any kind of anime stuff to school.

00:11:12.721 --> 00:11:13.641
Diego: I wouldn't do that.

00:11:14.061 --> 00:11:16.741
Diego: I had a reputation to maintain.

00:11:17.521 --> 00:11:22.841
Diego: So yeah, but no, it was not popular.

00:11:23.081 --> 00:11:23.921
Diego: It really wasn't.

00:11:23.941 --> 00:11:29.981
Diego: And not only that, but it was very difficult to get a hold of it if you wanted to play it at will, because of course, there was no streaming.

00:11:30.001 --> 00:11:30.981
Diego: There was nothing like that.

00:11:31.521 --> 00:11:33.721
Diego: The only source was Blockbuster.

00:11:34.341 --> 00:11:36.081
Joshua: Blockbuster.

00:11:36.101 --> 00:11:39.321
Diego: I messed up once saying the word Blockbuster.

00:11:39.341 --> 00:11:40.061
Joshua: Okay, you...

00:11:40.101 --> 00:11:42.941
Diego: It was once, and you hold it over my head the whole time.

00:11:42.961 --> 00:11:44.401
Joshua: You literally messed up saying...

00:11:44.961 --> 00:11:46.621
Joshua: You said Blockbuster.

00:11:46.701 --> 00:11:49.301
Joshua: I guarantee, I have heard you say the word...

00:11:49.321 --> 00:11:53.401
Joshua: It's not even a word, but the word Blockbuster.

00:11:53.481 --> 00:11:57.941
Joshua: Those sounds have come out of your mouth more than three times.

00:11:58.601 --> 00:11:59.541
Diego: Three times, huh?

00:11:59.881 --> 00:12:00.381
Joshua: Mm-hmm.

00:12:02.001 --> 00:12:04.721
Diego: Well, excuse my accent, son, okay?

00:12:04.881 --> 00:12:05.601
Joshua: I mean, you just...

00:12:05.641 --> 00:12:06.861
Diego: I'm an immigrant.

00:12:06.881 --> 00:12:07.501
Diego: I'm sorry.

00:12:08.801 --> 00:12:15.621
Diego: I came over here and busted my butt to give you a birth in a great country, and this is what I get in return.

00:12:15.901 --> 00:12:18.021
Diego: You make fun of me for how I say Blockbuster.

00:12:18.881 --> 00:12:20.201
Joshua: See, you just said it good.

00:12:20.221 --> 00:12:20.801
Joshua: You just said it...

00:12:20.821 --> 00:12:21.281
Diego: Oh, thank you.

00:12:21.301 --> 00:12:23.361
Diego: I appreciate your positive affirmation, Jit.

00:12:23.661 --> 00:12:27.641
Diego: Anyway, so Blockbuster didn't have that, right?

00:12:27.661 --> 00:12:33.681
Diego: You couldn't walk into the popular stores like Hollywood Video Blockbuster and find an anime section.

00:12:33.701 --> 00:12:35.181
Diego: That wasn't really a thing at that point.

00:12:35.741 --> 00:12:52.321
Diego: So, your only option were like maybe some comic book shops, maybe small video stores, like privately owned video stores, where the owner happened to be a fan of anime and manga, and they would have that kind of stuff there.

00:12:53.181 --> 00:13:08.381
Joshua: And you said that with the rise and creation of the internet, it was much easier to find anime because with the internet, people like being anonymous was kind of created.

00:13:08.881 --> 00:13:16.521
Joshua: And so, you could share that you liked something without having to worry about somebody knowing that it was you.

00:13:16.541 --> 00:13:16.801
Diego: For sure.

00:13:17.061 --> 00:13:25.841
Diego: And I think the internet overall was huge because the internet allowed you to connect specifically based on your tastes, on what you liked.

00:13:27.081 --> 00:13:37.881
Diego: And suddenly, you could go on to AOL, you've got mail, and go over into AOL Messenger, and you could find yourself in a room that was all about anime fans.

00:13:38.521 --> 00:13:48.541
Diego: So you immediately could put your guard down, and you could communicate with people at that same level, knowing that you were going to be judged or beat up on your way to the snack truck after school.

00:13:48.721 --> 00:13:49.641
Joshua: If you had that.

00:13:50.121 --> 00:14:03.921
Diego: Yeah, if you had that, right, but it was a much easier way to build community that way, which of course only evolved more when social media came into play, like all that stuff became more normal.

00:14:04.281 --> 00:14:24.921
Diego: But back to my point about Pokemon and Sailor Moon, I think that Sailor Moon was probably one of the first times that I remember seeing women girls interested in anime outwardly, like visibly, like, man, girls love Sailor Moon, they will talk about it all the time.

00:14:26.121 --> 00:14:38.681
Diego: And for us boys back then, you know, it was like we weren't going to criticize the one was going to make fun of the girls, you know, for liking Sailor Moon, although I don't know, maybe you had a separate experience.

00:14:39.001 --> 00:14:44.901
Diego: If you did, tell us your story, ge101podcast.gmail.com.

00:14:44.921 --> 00:14:48.221
Diego: I'm just saying, I don't know, you know, some people may have a different experience out there.

00:14:48.621 --> 00:15:03.901
Diego: But, but, but for for guys, like me being one of those who was a fan of anime back then, but you knew you, you weren't like, I wasn't going to talk to anybody about, you know, Captain Tsubasa, I wasn't going to talk to anybody about Knights of the Zodiac.

00:15:04.081 --> 00:15:06.181
Diego: I wasn't going to talk to anybody about Dragon Ball Z.

00:15:06.201 --> 00:15:08.181
Diego: I wasn't going to talk to anybody about Gundam.

00:15:08.201 --> 00:15:12.221
Diego: Like, those things could get you beat up at the snack truck.

00:15:12.241 --> 00:15:15.861
Diego: So you didn't talk about it, but the girls talked about Sailor Moon.

00:15:15.881 --> 00:15:17.821
Diego: It was like a freaking soap opera, man.

00:15:17.841 --> 00:15:21.741
Diego: And like every time, you know, oh my god, Tatina mask, this, this and that.

00:15:22.181 --> 00:15:26.761
Diego: I may have seen a couple episodes of Sailor Moon, you know.

00:15:27.721 --> 00:15:30.201
Joshua: Or like in like five entire seasons.

00:15:30.581 --> 00:15:31.441
Diego: Maybe, I don't know, whatever.

00:15:32.201 --> 00:15:40.421
Diego: So yeah, man, it was like this thing where you heard people talking about it, particularly girls back then, talking about it for the first time.

00:15:40.661 --> 00:15:44.861
Diego: And then Pokemon, you, I mean, I got to admit, like people started breaking out.

00:15:44.881 --> 00:15:50.881
Joshua: You think Pokemon was where like everybody or like anybody would become?

00:15:50.901 --> 00:15:51.301
Diego: Yeah.

00:15:51.441 --> 00:15:52.081
Joshua: Like people?

00:15:52.441 --> 00:16:00.461
Diego: Because you suddenly started seeing people like playing the card game at school, which was, and by the time I got to high school, like it was a thing.

00:16:00.481 --> 00:16:03.841
Diego: Like there, I remember there'd be dudes playing Pokemon cards in school.

00:16:04.261 --> 00:16:05.261
Diego: Like it was all good.

00:16:05.281 --> 00:16:06.481
Diego: There was no problem, you know?

00:16:07.601 --> 00:16:12.221
Diego: So little by little, like I just started seeing how acceptable that was.

00:16:12.781 --> 00:16:30.001
Diego: I think it started becoming this thing where like, if you were into comic books and you were into, you know, geeky sci-fi movies and stuff like that, this was like more of an acquired flavor of geekiness, you know?

00:16:30.221 --> 00:16:36.141
Diego: So like, if you liked it, it was okay, fine, you can like it, but you're kind of like an extreme geek.

00:16:37.701 --> 00:16:39.141
Diego: You're on the fringe a little bit.

00:16:39.141 --> 00:16:46.621
Diego: Even for like the geek audience, the geek crowd, you're kind of on the fringe, you know?

00:16:47.221 --> 00:16:48.381
Diego: That's kind of how I felt back then.

00:16:50.221 --> 00:16:57.881
Diego: But yeah, those are really, really important, I think, to getting things out into the mainstream, particularly in the West.

00:16:57.901 --> 00:17:03.261
Diego: Like, as soon as you have dubbed anime's entire seasons, it's huge.

00:17:04.041 --> 00:17:07.021
Diego: What was the first time that you got exposed to anime?

00:17:07.501 --> 00:17:10.021
Diego: Something really captured your attention that you remember?

00:17:10.041 --> 00:17:20.241
Joshua: Look, the first time that I ever actually wanted to pursue watching an anime show is probably Naruto.

00:17:20.841 --> 00:17:39.041
Joshua: I remember me and you actually watched maybe a season of Naruto together, and I think that's when I actually got kind of interested in anime, because I had heard of it before and I knew what Dragon Ball Z was.

00:17:39.301 --> 00:17:43.361
Joshua: Like I had heard those words somewhere in the back of the void.

00:17:43.761 --> 00:17:49.961
Joshua: But Naruto was the first time that I actually wanted to pursue watching an anime.

00:17:50.861 --> 00:17:53.361
Joshua: And Naruto, I mean, it's a great show.

00:17:53.961 --> 00:17:54.621
Joshua: So yeah.

00:17:54.621 --> 00:17:59.041
Diego: Did that serve it anyway as a gateway to any other anime?

00:17:59.341 --> 00:18:06.381
Diego: How did you go from that being kind of like your first love in anime to going over into the next thing that captured your attention?

00:18:07.061 --> 00:18:16.301
Diego: Because I remember you've had times when you were like not that hooked on anything regarding anime, and then you would find a new thing that would hook you.

00:18:16.341 --> 00:18:21.701
Joshua: I don't think it really has anything to do with the fact that it is anime.

00:18:22.301 --> 00:18:31.741
Joshua: I think it just has to do with if the story and the plot is something that I've never seen before, something entirely unique.

00:18:32.061 --> 00:18:38.741
Joshua: Like, some people will say that Naruto is not a unique show, because there's a lot of shows that have that same plot.

00:18:39.121 --> 00:18:47.761
Joshua: But I think Naruto was the originator of that plot in anime, of like that, like the chosen one plot.

00:18:47.781 --> 00:18:52.401
Joshua: I feel like that was one of the first anime to have that, like, kind of storyline.

00:18:52.901 --> 00:19:02.821
Joshua: And that, I mean, Naruto, Dragon Ball, and I'll say like One Piece and Gundam have like, influenced everything.

00:19:03.021 --> 00:19:09.501
Joshua: It's really hard to find an anime now that doesn't take any influence from those.

00:19:09.661 --> 00:19:10.881
Diego: Yeah, yeah, I agree.

00:19:10.901 --> 00:19:28.921
Diego: And but and I think that there's something, there's something okay about how formulaic anime tends to be, because of, and this leads into the next point in the discussion, which is like, what sets anime apart from other animation?

00:19:29.701 --> 00:19:30.081
Joshua: Yeah.

00:19:30.281 --> 00:19:43.801
Diego: And I think that what it like most, most, most stories in anime follow pretty much like a similar trope to any story in the West, whether it's animated or live action or whatever, where you got a hero, and there's some sort of antagonist, right?

00:19:44.361 --> 00:19:48.201
Diego: And then there's a set of encounters between the hero and the antagonist.

00:19:48.241 --> 00:19:57.541
Diego: Usually it follows the trope where like the hero is just like enjoying life, following, you know, whatever, going with the flow, chilling.

00:19:58.021 --> 00:19:59.981
Diego: And then suddenly big threat happens.

00:20:00.641 --> 00:20:05.701
Diego: At first the threat tends to be more generalized, and then you find out that there's somebody behind that threat.

00:20:06.281 --> 00:20:11.101
Diego: And then the hero goes to face off against that person, they lose the first battle.

00:20:11.781 --> 00:20:15.821
Diego: They go and recoup, re-strategize, they face each other again.

00:20:16.101 --> 00:20:19.201
Diego: Now it's more of a stalemate, it's more of a draw.

00:20:19.621 --> 00:20:25.161
Diego: They go back and recoup, and then the final battle comes where the hero is able to overcome the villain.

00:20:25.841 --> 00:20:33.381
Diego: Like there's the majority of stories follow that, where if there's a hero involved, there's usually some version of that going on.

00:20:34.401 --> 00:20:39.861
Diego: And you can get quite repetitive with that, right?

00:20:39.881 --> 00:20:52.521
Diego: Like there's a reason why there might be fatigue right now when it comes to superhero content, because it's like repeated versions of that same kind of thing.

00:20:52.701 --> 00:20:59.841
Joshua: Now that I think about it, Attack on Titan doesn't follow that formula.

00:21:01.061 --> 00:21:01.341
Diego: Why?

00:21:01.361 --> 00:21:01.581
Joshua: Why?

00:21:02.041 --> 00:21:14.841
Joshua: Because it only follows the first one, really, of living your life and then you find out about a threat and then you try to fight it and then you lose the first battle.

00:21:15.321 --> 00:21:21.641
Joshua: But then after that, things kind of start, in Attack on Titan, things kind of start diverging.

00:21:21.661 --> 00:21:22.401
Diego: Going off script?

00:21:22.541 --> 00:21:22.981
Joshua: Yeah.

00:21:25.961 --> 00:21:29.021
Diego: Well, even being formulaic, though, right?

00:21:29.061 --> 00:21:45.521
Diego: Even for the majority of anime is formulaic, I think that for me, the main thing that anime has compared to other animation styles from here in the West is the world building and how freaking creative these worlds are.

00:21:45.941 --> 00:22:02.441
Joshua: A plot can be almost entirely the same, the plot, but if the world is, let's say, in one piece, if the world is like a pirate world, and it's like all the sea, and the whole objective is to get the one piece, get the treasure.

00:22:02.961 --> 00:22:14.841
Joshua: But let's say in something like Dragon Ball, the objective is to, now I think about it, there's not really, I mean, I guess the objective is to get the Dragon Balls.

00:22:14.941 --> 00:22:16.761
Joshua: That's what everyone's kind of trying to do.

00:22:17.161 --> 00:22:22.861
Diego: Well, in the original Dragon Ball series, for sure, it was all about getting the Dragon Balls.

00:22:22.881 --> 00:22:23.401
Joshua: In the original.

00:22:23.421 --> 00:22:24.601
Joshua: And there was like Piccolo.

00:22:24.721 --> 00:22:25.721
Joshua: Yeah.

00:22:25.721 --> 00:22:44.241
Diego: And then in Dragon Ball Z, once Goku understands his identity, where he came from, and he decides that he's going to be like the protector of Earth, at that point, Dragon Ball Z is entirely about multiple waves of having to protect Earth against multiple waves of threats, you know?

00:22:46.341 --> 00:22:59.521
Joshua: But looking at it, like comparing those two, the plot is always, you have to, there's a hero, and there's something that is opposing to the hero.

00:22:59.981 --> 00:23:03.381
Joshua: And the hero has to capture it, or the hero has to defeat it.

00:23:04.061 --> 00:23:19.481
Joshua: But if the characters and the world building and everything else about the show, the aesthetic and everything, if all of that is different, it can seem like polar opposites shows.

00:23:19.661 --> 00:23:21.821
Diego: Yeah, it seems like it's a completely different thing.

00:23:22.801 --> 00:23:34.221
Diego: And again, I feel like there's a certain creative freedom that the people who are writing these stories and creating these worlds in anime, there's a certain creative freedom that I feel they have.

00:23:34.241 --> 00:23:48.321
Diego: Like, I don't know why it is that it's so difficult for story makers in the West to create the insane level of uniqueness in these worlds.

00:23:48.361 --> 00:23:48.721
Joshua: Yeah.

00:23:48.981 --> 00:23:51.261
Diego: Like, let's throw out some examples.

00:23:51.341 --> 00:23:53.041
Diego: You threw out a couple of really good examples.

00:23:53.061 --> 00:23:57.381
Diego: Like One Piece, this entire world is essentially a world of pirates.

00:23:57.921 --> 00:24:01.701
Diego: But it's not a world of pirates like Pirates of the Caribbean.

00:24:01.701 --> 00:24:03.901
Diego: No, it's a world of pirates where like...

00:24:04.121 --> 00:24:05.541
Joshua: Pirates where every single...

00:24:05.561 --> 00:24:08.941
Diego: Every ship has its own like whole aesthetic and dynamic.

00:24:08.961 --> 00:24:11.721
Joshua: Yeah, entire backstory and there's these fruits.

00:24:11.741 --> 00:24:13.601
Joshua: If you eat them, you get powers.

00:24:13.941 --> 00:24:17.181
Joshua: And like the main character is like a rubber band.

00:24:17.641 --> 00:24:21.001
Joshua: And there's this whole everybody's trying to find this treasure.

00:24:21.321 --> 00:24:23.261
Joshua: And there's all these different like...

00:24:23.301 --> 00:24:24.301
Joshua: It's crazy.

00:24:24.361 --> 00:24:24.741
Diego: Yeah.

00:24:24.741 --> 00:24:36.421
Joshua: Like, but I feel like American or just Western like culture or Western entertainment in general, it doesn't have that much creativeness.

00:24:36.461 --> 00:24:37.761
Diego: I don't think so either, man.

00:24:38.861 --> 00:24:42.241
Diego: Like for example, let's see Sailor Moon that we were talking about.

00:24:42.661 --> 00:24:55.201
Diego: Sailor Moon is basically like, you know, superpowered individuals, superpowered warriors, and they each draw their energy from the cosmic energy of different planets or different, you know, the celestial entities or whatever.

00:24:55.961 --> 00:25:01.581
Diego: And all of it, a lot of it follows like that whole planetary kind of astrology sort of thing.

00:25:02.441 --> 00:25:12.701
Diego: And all the characters are different, they're interesting, like every time somebody's introduced, they have like their whole piece of the mythology that they add on.

00:25:13.281 --> 00:25:15.681
Diego: And that's a really like, it's a really fascinating thing.

00:25:15.701 --> 00:25:17.701
Diego: Knights of the Zodiac was very similar in that.

00:25:17.721 --> 00:25:19.781
Diego: I always loved Greek mythology.

00:25:20.601 --> 00:25:35.681
Diego: So for me, Knights of the Zodiac was like, it was a dream thing, it was a dream come true in a sense, because it was like, all those elements that I loved about Greek mythology being turned into like these battle fighting things.

00:25:36.261 --> 00:25:45.881
Diego: And so like the goddess Athena was reincarnated and needed to raise up her army of bronze cloth, warriors, cloths or armors.

00:25:46.561 --> 00:25:55.641
Diego: And each armor is powered by a particular sign of the Zodiac, and that grants that bearer of the armor specific powers and abilities.

00:25:56.181 --> 00:26:03.181
Diego: And then there's like the 12 main signs of the Zodiac are all the houses of gold, yeah.

00:26:03.221 --> 00:26:05.561
Diego: And those are more powerful warriors.

00:26:05.921 --> 00:26:12.801
Diego: And like you could have at any point a new warrior enter the arena who is empowered by a different constellation in the stars.

00:26:13.441 --> 00:26:16.301
Diego: It's like, it's an entirely different world, right?

00:26:16.861 --> 00:26:21.041
Diego: And like even Naruto, that take on ninjas.

00:26:21.921 --> 00:26:26.021
Diego: I think that's one of the things that I appreciated the most, that it was a very different take on ninjas.

00:26:26.041 --> 00:26:35.521
Diego: Like in the West, we're just used to seeing ninjas as dudes clad in black with like only their eyes showing, but with a katana and some ninja ninja stars.

00:26:36.001 --> 00:27:02.721
Joshua: But in in Naruto, like it's not just like there's like the mystical elements too, in that there's like the jutsus and you have the you have the like sharing gone and the renegade the powers you can use through your eyes and you have all these mysterious characters like Kakashi like you don't really know who he is at first.

00:27:03.281 --> 00:27:07.821
Joshua: And there is these gods, the most powerful characters and like all this stuff.

00:27:08.821 --> 00:27:18.121
Joshua: Like I feel like Western animation or just Western storytelling, it's it doesn't create its own worlds like that.

00:27:18.541 --> 00:27:23.901
Joshua: It's either based off of our world and just like stems off of that.

00:27:24.381 --> 00:27:26.941
Joshua: Or it's just like in space or something.

00:27:26.941 --> 00:27:29.221
Diego: Yeah, yeah.

00:27:30.041 --> 00:27:49.041
Diego: My Hero Academia, you know, they took the superhero trope and created like expanded it like these in these weird directions that like I feel the animation or storytelling here in the West wouldn't take things.

00:27:49.601 --> 00:28:04.341
Diego: And like the closest thing to that, I think that we have in the West are things like Invincible or like The Boys, where like they are really taking the superhero genre and like turning it on its head.

00:28:04.361 --> 00:28:06.761
Diego: The Boys is basically showing like the dark side.

00:28:06.781 --> 00:28:12.481
Diego: Like if superheroes were actually real, super powered people were actually real, what would it look like?

00:28:12.501 --> 00:28:14.801
Diego: And how would that play out in the real world?

00:28:14.821 --> 00:28:17.641
Diego: Not in the fantasy world of like DC or Marvel.

00:28:18.001 --> 00:28:24.581
Diego: No, in the real world where politics is always involved, corporations that want power and money are always involved.

00:28:24.661 --> 00:28:30.981
Diego: Like in the real world, things would likely not play out as black and white and simple as they do in DC and Marvel.

00:28:31.401 --> 00:28:33.701
Diego: And The Boys does a really good job exploring that.

00:28:34.061 --> 00:28:37.061
Diego: And then with Invincible, you've got a very similar thing.

00:28:37.381 --> 00:28:42.621
Diego: I think they go probably a little bit further when it comes to like the wackiness of powers of abilities.

00:28:43.881 --> 00:28:46.521
Diego: But not like with My Hero Academia.

00:28:46.561 --> 00:28:53.841
Diego: A dude isn't going to walk out whose superpower is all based around the washing machine, like a laundry washing machine.

00:28:53.921 --> 00:28:57.461
Joshua: In My Hero Academia, they create rules.

00:28:57.901 --> 00:29:00.701
Joshua: They create their own rules to expand to it.

00:29:00.701 --> 00:29:10.501
Joshua: Like, if one person with one power has a baby with another person who has a completely different power, then there's a chance that the baby will turn out like genetically perfect.

00:29:10.601 --> 00:29:12.061
Joshua: They don't have both powers.

00:29:12.481 --> 00:29:20.841
Joshua: And like in the case of Dobby, it's weird because he only has the fire power, but he has the fire immune.

00:29:20.861 --> 00:29:24.101
Joshua: Yeah, he has the resistance ability of the cold.

00:29:24.121 --> 00:29:25.221
Joshua: Yeah, of the ice power.

00:29:25.341 --> 00:29:28.521
Joshua: So it's like, it's if he uses his power, it's hurting himself.

00:29:28.981 --> 00:29:34.061
Joshua: But he's like, he's good with the power, but he's hurting himself if he uses it.

00:29:34.121 --> 00:29:34.481
Diego: Right.

00:29:34.741 --> 00:29:46.821
Diego: And then there's the other thing that I feel like the superhero genre in the West is very much like every superhero is very well rounded for some reason.

00:29:46.921 --> 00:29:49.461
Diego: Yeah, like they all have multiple things that they could do.

00:29:49.481 --> 00:29:52.941
Diego: Like Spider-Man has his spider sense and he can cling onto surfaces.

00:29:53.421 --> 00:29:58.081
Diego: And he has the reflexes of a spider and he has enhanced strength, right?

00:29:58.101 --> 00:29:59.781
Diego: Like there's a whole bunch of things going on.

00:29:59.921 --> 00:30:08.381
Joshua: But in MHA, unless you're literally the main character, you only have one specific thing.

00:30:08.401 --> 00:30:08.621
Diego: Right.

00:30:08.641 --> 00:30:14.401
Diego: And then the interesting thing about that is how it forces the characters to train.

00:30:14.421 --> 00:30:28.041
Diego: And because it all follows the setting of a school, we see the evolution of how these kids come into the school with this one quirk that they figured out how to use at a basic level.

00:30:28.261 --> 00:30:28.581
Joshua: Yeah.

00:30:28.641 --> 00:30:42.541
Diego: And then they're taught by their instructors and by the gear that they attach to themselves how to amplify and use it in multiple different ways and evolve that one quirk to be able to do a couple of different things.

00:30:42.961 --> 00:30:45.621
Diego: But it's not like out the gate, right?

00:30:45.761 --> 00:30:48.961
Diego: Out the box, you can do a whole bunch of things.

00:30:48.981 --> 00:30:51.581
Diego: You're now a superhero like Miles Morales, right?

00:30:52.801 --> 00:30:53.921
Diego: It's not like that at all.

00:30:54.401 --> 00:31:00.001
Diego: Like you gotta make this one ability work in multiple different ways.

00:31:00.441 --> 00:31:10.501
Diego: And the fact that they pay so much attention to the whole crowd of super-powered people, like in...

00:31:10.521 --> 00:31:11.521
Diego: What season are we on again?

00:31:12.241 --> 00:31:12.701
Joshua: Six.

00:31:12.761 --> 00:31:13.441
Diego: Season six.

00:31:14.001 --> 00:31:18.181
Diego: And season six, the whole battle that ensues from the very beginning of the season.

00:31:18.201 --> 00:31:19.661
Joshua: That takes up like half the whole thing.

00:31:19.681 --> 00:31:20.121
Diego: Yeah.

00:31:20.381 --> 00:31:24.941
Diego: And spoiler alert, if you haven't watched season six, you may want to forward like 30 seconds or so.

00:31:27.261 --> 00:31:31.521
Diego: In season six of My Hero Academia, you have this battle that takes...

00:31:32.141 --> 00:31:40.641
Diego: That encompasses basically all of the main villains who are not imprisoned, and all of the pro-heroes and the students.

00:31:41.301 --> 00:31:47.781
Diego: And there's this big strategy that has been put together for the heroes to attack the compound where the villains live.

00:31:48.101 --> 00:31:55.301
Diego: And there's multiple layers, like there's several groups that are accomplishing different parts of the mission, and it's all happening simultaneously.

00:31:55.321 --> 00:32:02.241
Joshua: They're all put together based on who has what quirk, and what person, what quirk could help with this specific thing.

00:32:02.261 --> 00:32:02.601
Diego: Right.

00:32:02.921 --> 00:32:06.781
Diego: So it's like we're attacking this compound that is this big building.

00:32:06.941 --> 00:32:13.941
Diego: Let's get the guy who can control cement to knock down all the walls of the building so the buildings are completely exposed.

00:32:14.301 --> 00:32:19.161
Diego: They know that one of the main lieutenants of the villains is this guy who has this electrical power.

00:32:19.161 --> 00:32:25.061
Diego: Let's get the dude who can absorb energy from our part to absorb his attack so you cancel him out.

00:32:25.641 --> 00:32:33.241
Diego: And just like that, there are so many examples during the half of that season that is so brilliantly played out.

00:32:33.981 --> 00:32:40.221
Diego: And you rarely ever see something done that well in Western superhero genre.

00:32:40.641 --> 00:32:41.481
Diego: You just don't.

00:32:42.281 --> 00:32:55.961
Diego: Like we've had how many Avengers movies, and I think I've seen maybe a couple of instances where the Avengers truly work as a team and figure out like, how does my power compliment yours?

00:32:56.181 --> 00:32:56.601
Joshua: Yeah.

00:32:56.621 --> 00:32:59.141
Diego: How does my strength fortify your weakness?

00:32:59.801 --> 00:33:02.301
Diego: And that is something that is done constantly in MHA.

00:33:02.761 --> 00:33:03.581
Diego: It's brilliant, man.

00:33:03.601 --> 00:33:05.021
Diego: It's really, really good storytelling.

00:33:05.041 --> 00:33:13.401
Diego: And again, I think that it has to do so much with like how willing they are to push the boundaries in these worlds that they create.

00:33:14.161 --> 00:33:20.721
Diego: And these are just a few examples, but there are so many different animes that just create these crazy worlds, man.

00:33:21.221 --> 00:33:26.901
Diego: So like every time you submerge yourself into one of them, it's a whole new world that you're getting into.

00:33:27.781 --> 00:33:29.781
Diego: I know I sound like Aladdin when I say that.

00:33:30.481 --> 00:33:31.161
Diego: That's okay.

00:33:31.541 --> 00:33:32.461
Joshua: I, it's true.

00:33:32.661 --> 00:33:33.221
Diego: That's okay.

00:33:33.381 --> 00:33:36.721
Diego: Take the magic carpet ride, dive into an anime.

00:33:36.741 --> 00:33:37.621
Diego: They're fantastic.

00:33:37.941 --> 00:33:38.201
Joshua: Yeah.

00:33:38.941 --> 00:33:43.781
Diego: So, what else do you think makes anime different from Western animation?

00:33:44.341 --> 00:33:49.781
Joshua: I think one big thing, I'm like, I have to restate the question here.

00:33:50.241 --> 00:34:08.041
Joshua: One big thing that makes anime different from Western animation is the fact that I feel like in the world, it pays a lot more attention to side characters than Western media.

00:34:09.861 --> 00:34:25.421
Joshua: Because in, say, like again, My Hero Academia, these side characters who don't really have a lot to do with the main plot, you'll have like entire story arcs that are about their character development.

00:34:25.441 --> 00:34:32.661
Joshua: And the character development will be crazy for a character that doesn't have a lot of importance to the actual main story.

00:34:32.681 --> 00:34:38.741
Diego: But yo, they make you care so much for every character that's part of a man.

00:34:39.261 --> 00:34:43.661
Diego: And that's, I think, one of the things that caught me off guard the most about My Hero Academia.

00:34:43.681 --> 00:34:48.381
Diego: Like, I know we're talking a lot about Imei Che, but it's just that good.

00:34:48.941 --> 00:34:56.341
Diego: If you like anime or you've liked anime in the past and you like superhero stuff, trust me, you have to check this show out.

00:34:56.541 --> 00:35:06.081
Diego: It is really, historically, it's going to go down as one of the best anime or just animated storytelling in history.

00:35:06.881 --> 00:35:07.861
Diego: It's really, really good.

00:35:07.881 --> 00:35:08.621
Diego: Very well done.

00:35:10.221 --> 00:35:14.021
Diego: But yeah, it's just like being able to make you care for every single character.

00:35:14.041 --> 00:35:17.721
Diego: Like I can't say how many Marvel movies don't do a good job at that.

00:35:18.381 --> 00:35:25.161
Diego: You know, there's just too many side characters that you never get to see, the people you never get to see.

00:35:25.181 --> 00:35:33.141
Diego: Like they even give the people, you know, of Japan, like the average citizens, they even give them opportunities to shine.

00:35:33.661 --> 00:35:36.161
Diego: They give them parts of stories and stuff like that.

00:35:36.541 --> 00:35:36.961
Diego: I don't know.

00:35:36.981 --> 00:35:38.481
Diego: It's just a really interesting thing.

00:35:38.501 --> 00:35:39.181
Diego: Let me ask you something.

00:35:39.201 --> 00:35:43.021
Diego: What do you think about animes being brought to live action?

00:35:43.581 --> 00:35:50.221
Diego: Do you feel like something gets lost when you bring an anime to life in live action?

00:35:51.301 --> 00:35:54.121
Joshua: I think, okay, the center better be really specific.

00:35:54.861 --> 00:36:14.881
Joshua: But you know how in an anime, there are some action sequences or fighting sequences where a character will do an attack and then the camera, air quotes, will follow that attack on its path until it meets its target.

00:36:15.841 --> 00:36:19.301
Joshua: And it's really cool because it's animated, so you can kind of do whatever you want.

00:36:20.061 --> 00:36:29.021
Joshua: You can do cool effects, and then when it hits it, like cool impact, if it's live action, you can't really do the same thing, I feel like.

00:36:29.701 --> 00:36:40.841
Joshua: Because if a character charges up an attack and the camera has to follow it, it has to be very perfect, and all the effects have to be...

00:36:41.821 --> 00:36:49.361
Joshua: Like, there's something about the look and style of anime that live action can't really represent.

00:36:49.381 --> 00:36:56.421
Joshua: I feel like, like, okay, the hair of Dragon Ball, the hair of Dragon Ball characters.

00:36:56.621 --> 00:36:57.401
Diego: Oh, the hair.

00:36:58.781 --> 00:37:05.941
Joshua: You can't put that on a human and expect it to not look like a parody.

00:37:05.961 --> 00:37:10.101
Diego: Yeah, Krillin is the only one that can get away with looking exactly like himself.

00:37:10.221 --> 00:37:10.761
Joshua: Yeah.

00:37:10.781 --> 00:37:11.561
Diego: In live action.

00:37:11.981 --> 00:37:12.301
Diego: Yeah.

00:37:12.521 --> 00:37:23.861
Diego: You know, that point that you just said about the way that the story is told in the midst of the action, I think, is a really big key differentiator from anime.

00:37:23.881 --> 00:37:29.521
Diego: And I think that has a lot to do with the origin of anime, which is manga, similar to comic books.

00:37:29.701 --> 00:37:30.021
Joshua: Yeah.

00:37:30.061 --> 00:37:38.201
Diego: Like, in a comic book, I'm going to get, let's say, like, point A is Batman is standing here on the left.

00:37:38.801 --> 00:37:41.861
Diego: Point B is Batman is on the way to punch an enemy.

00:37:42.241 --> 00:37:46.201
Diego: And point C is Batman making impact in the enemy, with the enemy.

00:37:48.021 --> 00:37:54.161
Diego: At all those points, I have thought bubbles or speech bubbles in each one of those points.

00:37:55.121 --> 00:38:00.521
Diego: And in each one of those points, I'm getting an entire chunk of the story being told.

00:38:00.741 --> 00:38:01.121
Joshua: Yeah.

00:38:01.761 --> 00:38:07.141
Diego: And that is something that is impossible to do in live action.

00:38:07.321 --> 00:38:07.741
Joshua: Yeah.

00:38:09.361 --> 00:38:13.241
Diego: And you would think impossible to do in animation.

00:38:14.041 --> 00:38:18.701
Diego: And the Western world and Western animation does not do that.

00:38:18.941 --> 00:38:26.221
Joshua: I was about to say, right, something that has to do with that is in anime.

00:38:27.401 --> 00:38:30.721
Joshua: Again, I'm using the example of My Hero Academia because it's a really good show.

00:38:32.761 --> 00:38:57.501
Joshua: And also let's just say Attack on Titan, in both of those shows, in an action sequence, you will have, while a character is charging up an attack that takes an unusually long amount of time, they will have an entire five flashbacks, three entire inner monologues, and they'll have like an inner awakening and unlock like three new powers.

00:38:58.921 --> 00:39:00.481
Diego: Yeah, that's very true.

00:39:01.401 --> 00:39:08.301
Joshua: And in live action, in live action, you can't do that, because that's just like boring in live action.

00:39:08.881 --> 00:39:09.261
Diego: Yeah.

00:39:09.601 --> 00:39:25.741
Diego: But and again, that is, I think, something that makes anime very different, and is that as opposed to the comic book content that then inspires like live action or animated stuff here in the West, when it comes to going from manga to anime, they actually do keep that element.

00:39:25.761 --> 00:39:26.561
Joshua: They keep everything.

00:39:26.581 --> 00:39:34.961
Diego: Yeah, so like Captain Tsubasa, for example, it took an entire episode to get from, remember it was a soccer based thing, right?

00:39:35.221 --> 00:39:41.861
Diego: It took an entire episode or more to get from one end of the field to the next, okay?

00:39:43.061 --> 00:39:53.361
Diego: And I'm talking like dudes were like running, the ball was moving on and on and on, and they were really only moved like five feet.

00:39:54.021 --> 00:39:57.461
Joshua: Like the scene in My Hero Academia where they were falling?

00:39:58.561 --> 00:40:03.841
Diego: Yeah, there was a scene on an episode that we just saw where somebody's falling in the middle of a battle of a city.

00:40:03.861 --> 00:40:06.321
Joshua: And you could see like the building was passing.

00:40:06.381 --> 00:40:10.301
Joshua: There was a shot like from farther back where you could see the height of the building.

00:40:10.801 --> 00:40:15.481
Joshua: And then you see that they're falling from the top of the building.

00:40:15.521 --> 00:40:16.961
Diego: Constantly.

00:40:16.981 --> 00:40:17.861
Joshua: They're falling from...

00:40:17.861 --> 00:40:18.941
Diego: At high speed.

00:40:18.961 --> 00:40:22.941
Diego: I'm talking free fall, not floating or anything, free falling.

00:40:23.281 --> 00:40:26.261
Diego: The Burj Khalifa has nothing on this building.

00:40:26.661 --> 00:40:30.121
Diego: This is the tallest building this side of the Milky Way, bro.

00:40:30.141 --> 00:40:33.001
Diego: It is insane how tall that building would have had to have been.

00:40:33.521 --> 00:40:36.081
Diego: But anime is unapologetic about that.

00:40:36.541 --> 00:40:40.401
Diego: They don't care to be realistic when it comes to that thing.

00:40:40.641 --> 00:40:51.261
Diego: Like the most important thing is for them to be able to show you and tell you what's happening in that hero's mind or that character's mind as this bit of the action is going.

00:40:51.301 --> 00:40:58.461
Joshua: Because anime, they really care about you having every piece of the puzzle.

00:40:58.721 --> 00:40:59.641
Diego: One hundred percent.

00:40:59.641 --> 00:41:07.561
Joshua: They don't care if it takes nine episodes, half a season for Goku to charge up a Kamehameha.

00:41:07.581 --> 00:41:08.401
Joshua: Correct.

00:41:08.741 --> 00:41:13.181
Joshua: They'll give you every single piece of background information that you need to know.

00:41:13.241 --> 00:41:14.101
Diego: One hundred percent.

00:41:14.461 --> 00:41:20.641
Diego: And one show that is really kind of annoying when it comes to that is Demon Slayer.

00:41:20.661 --> 00:41:24.221
Diego: Because you get like a whole battle with a villain.

00:41:24.461 --> 00:41:41.461
Joshua: And then at the dying moment, at the dying moment, they'll reveal literally their entire story from their life until they were born, since they were children, before they were even demons, up until the moment where they're about to be.

00:41:41.481 --> 00:41:46.061
Diego: Yeah, the show is like, oh, okay, you're happy to get to the end of this battle.

00:41:46.081 --> 00:41:47.301
Diego: You're happy you're hero one.

00:41:47.701 --> 00:41:51.821
Diego: Well, we're gonna make you sit through this villain's entire backstory.

00:41:51.841 --> 00:41:53.081
Diego: You know what it reminded me of?

00:41:53.401 --> 00:41:58.721
Diego: The killings, the moments where you kill, you assassinate a main character in Assassin's Creed 2.

00:41:59.301 --> 00:42:01.861
Joshua: And then it goes into the...

00:42:01.881 --> 00:42:06.341
Diego: Like the whole world, everything around you just turns into like, you know, this ethereal realm.

00:42:06.361 --> 00:42:06.721
Joshua: Yeah.

00:42:06.741 --> 00:42:10.521
Diego: And you have like this long conversation with this dude who should be dead.

00:42:10.541 --> 00:42:12.901
Joshua: He's been bleeding out this entire time.

00:42:12.921 --> 00:42:14.481
Diego: Yeah, it kind of reminds me of that.

00:42:14.961 --> 00:42:22.981
Diego: But you know what, like even though it's weird and like, again, compared to like Western animation or live action storytelling, it's...

00:42:24.361 --> 00:42:27.501
Diego: It almost seems like, like, oh my God, just get on with it.

00:42:28.441 --> 00:42:30.721
Diego: It's in the DNA of anime.

00:42:30.761 --> 00:42:39.901
Joshua: Because I think, okay, in anime, when it does that, like, some people who don't watch anime, they'll probably think, like, how can you put up with that?

00:42:40.281 --> 00:42:56.741
Joshua: Like, but when you watch it, in between, when the action is happening, in those mini stories in between that, like, those you get lost in those little stories, too, like those are entertaining too.

00:42:57.061 --> 00:42:58.441
Joshua: So it doesn't really matter.

00:42:59.121 --> 00:43:00.921
Joshua: What is doesn't matter.

00:43:02.381 --> 00:43:11.821
Joshua: What are the words that I'm trying to say, it doesn't matter what is really happening or like how long something is taking.

00:43:11.841 --> 00:43:17.361
Joshua: As long as there's still like actual good content happening, then it's fine.

00:43:17.461 --> 00:43:18.501
Diego: Yeah, I agree.

00:43:19.501 --> 00:43:25.581
Diego: It's very similar actually to the what a lot of people criticize about movies that are based on books.

00:43:26.121 --> 00:43:34.561
Diego: Like the first thing that anybody who's read a book version and then sees the movie, the live action movie is like, it doesn't compare to the book.

00:43:34.581 --> 00:43:36.201
Diego: You see, you hear that all the time.

00:43:36.221 --> 00:43:38.021
Diego: Yeah, like the book is better, you know?

00:43:39.021 --> 00:43:41.441
Diego: And there's reasons why people say that, right?

00:43:41.461 --> 00:44:00.341
Diego: Like Twilight, the scene where Bella walks into the classroom and Edward is sitting down and she walks in, in the live action movie, you see it as her walking in and then there's a fan that's blowing towards where Edward is sitting.

00:44:00.661 --> 00:44:05.881
Diego: So, and you see him, like, what's that called, gag.

00:44:07.841 --> 00:44:16.201
Diego: And then you don't get the context at all of what's happening in Edgar's mind, in Edgar, shout out to my boy Edgar.

00:44:16.741 --> 00:44:32.481
Diego: In Edward's mind, in the book you do, in the book you get the entire, similar to what we're talking about with anime, you get the entire context of like he's reacting to her smell and his smell, her smell, and her smell is so delicious to him.

00:44:33.041 --> 00:44:35.361
Diego: You know, there's like an intensity.

00:44:35.381 --> 00:44:39.161
Diego: That's why everybody's like after Bella, because like her blood smells in a very particular way.

00:44:39.821 --> 00:44:53.641
Joshua: And it's very appealing to vampires in the book, or in the movie, doesn't it take like a whole time to find out that Bella even has a smell that is like, yeah, healing, it takes a long, long time.

00:44:53.961 --> 00:44:57.621
Diego: And in the book, you get it, you start getting a sense for that really early on.

00:44:58.141 --> 00:45:00.341
Diego: And that's just a little example, right?

00:45:00.361 --> 00:45:12.241
Diego: But there are so many other instances where like you lose completely the context of what was in the original source material when you translate it to live action.

00:45:12.701 --> 00:45:36.741
Diego: And I feel that for that reason, anime is a very, very difficult thing to translate to live action unless you're willing to embrace that same way of giving that context and not give a crap about how realistic it is that it takes this person to fall from this building or to cross from one side of the field to another.

00:45:37.641 --> 00:45:39.521
Diego: You got to ignore that.

00:45:39.521 --> 00:45:51.001
Diego: You got to suspend the disbelief in that sense, just like you do with the anime, just like you do with the manga or with a comic book, to be able to appreciate a live action version of the anime in a similar way.

00:45:51.301 --> 00:45:56.561
Diego: And I don't think that Western production companies are very willing to do that.

00:45:57.081 --> 00:46:03.761
Diego: Because if it's a property, like there's, for example, there's been, I think there's been an MHA movie announced.

00:46:04.481 --> 00:46:05.321
Joshua: Yeah, announced.

00:46:06.161 --> 00:46:15.081
Diego: So if it's a Western production company that's going to have this, there is no way that they're going to translate that aspect of the anime.

00:46:15.421 --> 00:46:29.101
Diego: Yeah, so what you're going to be left with is something kind of similar to like The Boys without the, you know, extreme goriness and bloodiness, kind of similar to Invincible.

00:46:29.121 --> 00:46:41.681
Diego: But again, without the, you know, the goriness, you're going to be left with like a Westernized version of MHA, which, let's be honest, is going to be whack, probably.

00:46:42.761 --> 00:47:02.181
Joshua: Because I think the such creative minds of the creators of these animes, it's just, they'll, they create stuff that can only really work in that in their format, and I feel like they know that.

00:47:02.201 --> 00:47:16.381
Joshua: And a lot of creators of animes that have gotten adapted into live action, like they'll say, that they regret taking the deal, right, right, right, yeah.

00:47:16.961 --> 00:47:22.801
Diego: Recently, we watched Knights of the Zodiac.

00:47:23.761 --> 00:47:25.001
Joshua: We did watch that.

00:47:25.021 --> 00:47:28.181
Joshua: That was a movie that we that was a thing that actually exists.

00:47:28.441 --> 00:47:29.241
Joshua: It exists.

00:47:30.881 --> 00:47:32.381
Diego: It was so sad, man.

00:47:34.201 --> 00:47:35.461
Diego: It was so sad.

00:47:35.981 --> 00:47:36.841
Diego: You know what's funny?

00:47:37.541 --> 00:47:51.401
Diego: That there are some movies, there are there's some like video game movies that you ask yourself is like, because video games don't do this, this thing that anime does of like these storytelling moments in the middle of action or whatever.

00:47:52.581 --> 00:48:04.121
Diego: It makes you wonder like, why the heck can't video games be translated, you know, more effectively into live action, you know, like, I understand with anime because of this reason, but video games, you shouldn't have the same level of challenges.

00:48:04.141 --> 00:48:05.241
Diego: There are different challenges, though.

00:48:05.261 --> 00:48:05.801
Diego: I'll give them that.

00:48:05.821 --> 00:48:15.421
Diego: There are different challenges, because you are going for something highly interactive that you're controlling in a sense to, you know, something you have no control over is just a one one directional story being told.

00:48:16.681 --> 00:48:17.981
Diego: But let me see, there's okay.

00:48:20.061 --> 00:48:22.061
Diego: I've never seen that Alita Battle Angel movie.

00:48:22.081 --> 00:48:26.881
Diego: That's one anime apparently that was turned into into live action.

00:48:26.901 --> 00:48:31.121
Diego: The Dragon Ball Evolution movie is a thing that also exists.

00:48:31.581 --> 00:48:34.661
Joshua: I mean, unfortunately, I mean, does it exist?

00:48:34.681 --> 00:48:36.921
Joshua: So like, do we have to acknowledge that that exists?

00:48:37.061 --> 00:48:40.941
Diego: Unfortunately, 2019, 2009, it was released.

00:48:41.641 --> 00:48:43.301
Diego: And my god, that movie was terrible.

00:48:44.121 --> 00:48:46.681
Diego: Like didn't you compare to the anime?

00:48:46.701 --> 00:48:49.281
Diego: It was just a horrible thing.

00:48:52.061 --> 00:48:58.481
Joshua: I feel like there has to be like such a large amount of people that walked out of this theater.

00:48:59.261 --> 00:48:59.941
Diego: Probably.

00:49:01.581 --> 00:49:04.901
Diego: Ghost in the Shell, I didn't see the movie.

00:49:05.101 --> 00:49:07.341
Diego: I think it was like Scarlett Johansson or something.

00:49:08.721 --> 00:49:10.241
Diego: But I heard same things about it.

00:49:12.221 --> 00:49:15.221
Diego: Speed Racer, didn't even have any interest in seeing that.

00:49:15.241 --> 00:49:20.001
Diego: I was never a huge Speed Racer fan, but Death Note wasn't terrible.

00:49:20.021 --> 00:49:21.041
Diego: Death Note wasn't bad.

00:49:23.321 --> 00:49:24.721
Joshua: That's your Little Tomato.

00:49:24.801 --> 00:49:25.241
Diego: Oh, dang.

00:49:25.421 --> 00:49:28.101
Diego: But I mean, like, aesthetically, they got it.

00:49:29.641 --> 00:49:30.381
Diego: Don't you think?

00:49:32.301 --> 00:49:34.461
Joshua: You're talking about the Netflix movie?

00:49:37.841 --> 00:49:38.621
Joshua: I guess.

00:49:39.441 --> 00:49:39.981
Diego: Like they kept-

00:49:40.001 --> 00:49:41.681
Joshua: Honestly, I have to disagree with you here.

00:49:41.801 --> 00:49:42.201
Diego: Really?

00:49:42.341 --> 00:49:42.741
Joshua: Yeah.

00:49:44.081 --> 00:49:51.141
Joshua: I think Death Note has a very, obviously, like the aesthetic is very dark, but it's a certain type of dark.

00:49:51.221 --> 00:49:55.041
Joshua: Like even when it's like broad daylight outside-

00:49:55.241 --> 00:49:56.361
Diego: It's still like blue and blue.

00:49:56.521 --> 00:49:57.141
Joshua: Yeah.

00:49:57.441 --> 00:50:01.001
Joshua: But I feel like you can't really do that in a live action.

00:50:02.001 --> 00:50:03.801
Diego: Didn't they announce an Attack on Titan?

00:50:04.101 --> 00:50:07.681
Diego: No, wait, wasn't there an Attack on Titan live action movie made?

00:50:08.301 --> 00:50:10.301
Joshua: I'm gonna forget that you said those words.

00:50:10.661 --> 00:50:12.341
Diego: I'm pretty sure that exists out there.

00:50:12.361 --> 00:50:14.421
Joshua: I think it's a thing.

00:50:15.501 --> 00:50:18.681
Diego: Man, talking about unique ideas.

00:50:18.921 --> 00:50:20.441
Diego: Assassination Classroom.

00:50:20.541 --> 00:50:20.961
Joshua: That.

00:50:21.201 --> 00:50:21.881
Diego: Good God.

00:50:21.941 --> 00:50:28.121
Diego: Like, again, if you describe that to somebody, you're like, what are you talking about?

00:50:28.141 --> 00:50:31.741
Diego: But once you get into it, it's insane.

00:50:31.761 --> 00:50:33.781
Diego: Like, it's really entertaining.

00:50:33.801 --> 00:50:41.961
Diego: Let me see, what other movies have been made into live action?

00:50:45.241 --> 00:50:46.981
Diego: Full Metal Alchemist, I guess.

00:50:50.021 --> 00:50:53.941
Joshua: Actually, One Piece recently came out as a show.

00:50:53.961 --> 00:50:55.181
Diego: I got really good reviews.

00:50:55.201 --> 00:50:56.481
Joshua: Yeah, apparently it's good.

00:50:56.601 --> 00:50:56.961
Diego: Yeah.

00:50:57.301 --> 00:51:05.701
Diego: Yeah, we should check that out soon, because I think for so many people to be praising it, there must be something different about it.

00:51:05.721 --> 00:51:12.061
Diego: The Cowboy Bebop live action thing, which is also, I think, on Netflix, I don't think it got the same...

00:51:12.921 --> 00:51:19.201
Diego: They said that the acting was really good and stuff like that, but it didn't get the same praise that I hear the One Piece thing having.

00:51:19.901 --> 00:51:38.961
Diego: The thing is, okay, once you remove those little things that make animes unique, right, the stuff that we've talked about, once you remove that, what you're left with is the version, is just the world that is created in the anime, which of course is very interesting and unique in a lot of these cases, right?

00:51:39.101 --> 00:51:47.161
Diego: So like a One Piece, it's unlike anything that you have really seen in the West unless you're, you know, if you're not into anime.

00:51:47.901 --> 00:51:53.581
Diego: So like, whoa, pirates, and there's like a pirate who's like a clown and this dude is stretchy.

00:51:53.601 --> 00:51:58.601
Diego: Like it's so different, you know, it's a very, very, very, very different world.

00:51:58.621 --> 00:52:06.961
Diego: So I can see why even if it doesn't stay faithful to how animes tell stories, I can see why it would be appealing.

00:52:07.721 --> 00:52:22.521
Diego: But as soon as you have something else that is set in a less wacky world, like Demon Slayer, I feel like if you turn Demon Slayer into a live action movie, it's gonna look very similar to a lot of other movies that are out there.

00:52:22.681 --> 00:52:23.141
Joshua: Yeah.

00:52:23.461 --> 00:52:26.681
Diego: You lose Tanjiro's inner thoughts.

00:52:27.801 --> 00:52:32.301
Diego: You lose his suffering, his inner suffering over his sister, his fears.

00:52:33.081 --> 00:52:41.361
Diego: You lose how much this dude is having to overcome the terrors of these monsters, we're trying to hunt them down, we're trying to get rid of them or whatever.

00:52:41.941 --> 00:52:43.021
Diego: You lose all that.

00:52:43.041 --> 00:52:44.221
Diego: You lose all that context.

00:52:44.241 --> 00:52:47.281
Diego: And that is what makes that story so appealing.

00:52:50.401 --> 00:52:53.181
Diego: I almost don't want it in live action.

00:52:54.261 --> 00:53:04.921
Diego: I'd rather go watch another brand new, fresh anime movie from it, rather than watch a live action version of it.

00:53:06.061 --> 00:53:06.901
Diego: I don't think...

00:53:08.141 --> 00:53:14.521
Diego: There are things that I can't wait for in the comic book world to be turned into live action.

00:53:15.141 --> 00:53:19.441
Diego: Like, Something is Killing the Children, which is a horror comic by Boom Studios.

00:53:21.961 --> 00:53:25.301
Diego: I can't wait for that to be a live action series.

00:53:26.281 --> 00:53:27.781
Diego: That is going to be...

00:53:27.801 --> 00:53:30.661
Diego: Because the story itself is told in the...

00:53:31.101 --> 00:53:33.881
Diego: It plays out like a television show, basically.

00:53:34.881 --> 00:53:36.881
Diego: I can't wait for that to come to live action.

00:53:38.161 --> 00:53:41.421
Diego: Berserker, created also by Boom Studios...

00:53:41.441 --> 00:53:43.161
Joshua: That's the one with Keanu Reeves.

00:53:43.181 --> 00:53:44.761
Diego: Yeah, he co-wrote it.

00:53:45.881 --> 00:53:48.181
Diego: That is something that I can't wait to see in live action.

00:53:48.981 --> 00:53:50.941
Joshua: Wasn't it created with the...

00:53:50.961 --> 00:53:52.281
Diego: With that applied in mind, yeah.

00:53:53.321 --> 00:53:56.781
Diego: And there's a whole bunch of other stories, like Deceased, for example, right?

00:53:56.821 --> 00:54:01.461
Diego: The zombie story from DC Comics.

00:54:02.281 --> 00:54:04.501
Diego: I would love for that to become a live action thing.

00:54:04.521 --> 00:54:06.621
Diego: That could be a whole trilogy of movies.

00:54:07.061 --> 00:54:10.241
Diego: Standalone, self-contained, not connected to anything else.

00:54:10.721 --> 00:54:14.181
Diego: Just one trilogy, like Nolan's style.

00:54:14.341 --> 00:54:14.681
Joshua: Yeah.

00:54:14.981 --> 00:54:17.141
Diego: One trilogy telling that entire story.

00:54:17.141 --> 00:54:21.781
Diego: That would be an amazing freaking movie series, a movie franchise.

00:54:22.921 --> 00:54:24.281
Diego: Animes, not really.

00:54:24.641 --> 00:54:25.941
Joshua: Like, you...

00:54:27.721 --> 00:54:29.701
Joshua: Maybe it's because...

00:54:30.221 --> 00:54:40.341
Joshua: Maybe it's partly because of the bad experiences that we've had with anime live action in the past, but also you just kind of know that there's stuff in anime that you...

00:54:41.421 --> 00:54:42.061
Joshua: Even if...

00:54:42.321 --> 00:55:00.101
Joshua: Okay, let's say that you did translate everything in an anime into a live action, like the weird pauses in the middle of a fight for an inner monologue, all that weird action sequence, everything about an anime into a live action, it just wouldn't...

00:55:00.481 --> 00:55:02.941
Diego: You don't think that even then it would translate?

00:55:03.061 --> 00:55:04.361
Joshua: Yeah, it wouldn't be the same.

00:55:04.381 --> 00:55:05.901
Diego: I'm gonna reserve judgment on that.

00:55:07.241 --> 00:55:10.861
Diego: I'm not sure that I agree, because I would have to first see it.

00:55:13.581 --> 00:55:14.041
Joshua: Okay.

00:55:14.501 --> 00:55:18.941
Diego: Look, Scott Pilgrim vs.

00:55:18.961 --> 00:55:28.341
Diego: The World, that is a movie that kind of remained pretty faithful to the manga.

00:55:29.841 --> 00:55:30.721
Joshua: Oh, that was a manga?

00:55:30.941 --> 00:55:31.341
Diego: Yeah.

00:55:31.981 --> 00:55:36.521
Diego: That is a movie that actually retains that kind of quirkiness of...

00:55:37.001 --> 00:55:42.261
Diego: Even though I don't think it was an anime at that point, I think it went straight from manga to movie.

00:55:42.281 --> 00:55:48.081
Diego: But that movie to me is very, very quirky in the way that animes are.

00:55:49.161 --> 00:56:00.241
Diego: And so that might probably be the best example that I can think of, of a translation from that sort of content, anime or manga, into live action.

00:56:00.721 --> 00:56:03.741
Diego: But the movie has a very quirky setup.

00:56:03.761 --> 00:56:04.401
Diego: It's a very...

00:56:04.421 --> 00:56:06.061
Diego: I'm not even talking about the story.

00:56:06.461 --> 00:56:08.941
Diego: I'm talking about the way that the story plays out.

00:56:08.961 --> 00:56:14.681
Diego: Like it embraces the silliness of the pauses and the inner thoughts.

00:56:14.701 --> 00:56:18.041
Diego: Like you hear Scott Pilgrim's inner thoughts the entire time.

00:56:19.061 --> 00:56:23.301
Diego: And that allows you to get all of that context that you wouldn't be able to get otherwise.

00:56:25.341 --> 00:56:28.381
Diego: Yeah, I think that that might be probably my favorite example.

00:56:28.401 --> 00:56:29.501
Diego: So can it be done?

00:56:29.741 --> 00:56:30.201
Diego: Maybe.

00:56:30.821 --> 00:56:31.401
Diego: But I would...

00:56:32.061 --> 00:56:35.821
Diego: Oh, man, for something like MHA or like a Dragon Ball or like...

00:56:35.841 --> 00:56:39.341
Diego: Well, I think...

00:56:39.361 --> 00:56:41.361
Diego: Not Knights of the Zodiac, like you...

00:56:41.381 --> 00:56:43.921
Diego: I don't know, because the subject matter is very different.

00:56:43.941 --> 00:56:46.281
Diego: It's not as goofy as Scott Pilgrim, you know?

00:56:46.301 --> 00:56:46.981
Joshua: Yeah, I think...

00:56:46.981 --> 00:56:56.641
Joshua: I also think that one of the problems is that, like with the transition from animation to, like, real people...

00:56:56.781 --> 00:56:57.101
Joshua: Yeah.

00:56:57.521 --> 00:56:58.361
Joshua: It's weird.

00:56:59.541 --> 00:57:03.181
Joshua: It would be weird to convey the same, like...

00:57:04.321 --> 00:57:04.521
Joshua: If...

00:57:05.101 --> 00:57:12.401
Joshua: Okay, let's say, like, the idea I was saying, that they translated everything from an anime into a live action.

00:57:12.801 --> 00:57:24.641
Joshua: It would be really awkward to see, like, the character of Deku in live action, in a fight, let's say, with the fight that we were talking about earlier.

00:57:26.181 --> 00:57:39.061
Joshua: He's just, like, looking there, like, saying he's looking there, like, at Shigaraki, just blank, while you hear his inner thoughts.

00:57:39.081 --> 00:57:40.141
Diego: Standing perfectly still.

00:57:40.481 --> 00:57:44.521
Joshua: Just, like, just one still frame, while you hear his inner thoughts.

00:57:44.621 --> 00:57:45.761
Diego: See, here's the thing.

00:57:46.001 --> 00:57:58.721
Diego: I think that, and this might require just, like, the right director, I think you can't depend on that, because, like, in anime, it is quite literally a still frame.

00:57:59.121 --> 00:58:02.081
Diego: Like, there's not even any movement, any motion happening.

00:58:02.101 --> 00:58:05.041
Diego: It's just, like, a still frame zoomed in on the dude's face, right?

00:58:05.061 --> 00:58:05.961
Diego: Like, what you're describing.

00:58:07.041 --> 00:58:34.721
Diego: But if somebody is, has enough ingenuity to come up with a live action version of that, it could be, like, I don't know, locked in on him, the camera locked in on him, but, like, 360, you know, like, camera going around, you know, slowly, so you see, like, the background movement, something happening with the lights as he is doing his inner monologue thing.

00:58:34.741 --> 00:58:35.941
Joshua: So you think they could, like...

00:58:36.541 --> 00:58:44.481
Diego: I think they could find a way to translate that into live action so that it doesn't become boring or, like, weird, weird to just stare at a guy standing still.

00:58:45.581 --> 00:58:51.281
Diego: I think there's something there, man, somebody could come up with a way of doing that, that doesn't seem, you know, odd.

00:58:52.701 --> 00:58:57.181
Diego: But again, it has to be somebody who appreciates that kind of aspect of anime, right?

00:58:57.201 --> 00:59:05.161
Diego: It has to be somebody who knows the nuances of anime and what, and the fact that those things make anime a unique form of storytelling.

00:59:05.221 --> 00:59:05.681
Joshua: Yeah.

00:59:06.081 --> 00:59:11.221
Diego: So if you put it in the hands of somebody who is a true fan, a legit fan, you might be able to get that.

00:59:11.661 --> 00:59:14.101
Diego: Good example, Creed III.

00:59:16.261 --> 00:59:17.461
Diego: Remember that Michael B.

00:59:17.481 --> 00:59:22.981
Diego: Jordan, that was his directorial debut, and he's a big anime fan.

00:59:23.381 --> 00:59:29.141
Diego: And so he said that anime was kind of an influence for him in some of those scenes, and we got to see that, right?

00:59:29.361 --> 00:59:36.881
Diego: Like in that last fight between Apollo and other dude, I was about to say Kang, the Conqueror.

00:59:40.461 --> 00:59:48.881
Diego: In that last fight, you saw that moment when like, after they were going at it, suddenly you had a very anime-like moment where like everything around them went black.

00:59:50.001 --> 00:59:58.961
Diego: And they were standing like in a different part of time and space, and it was like they were the only two beings that existed at that moment, and that is a very, very anime thing.

00:59:59.261 --> 00:59:59.621
Joshua: Yeah.

00:59:59.641 --> 00:59:59.881
Joshua: Right?

01:00:00.261 --> 01:00:10.741
Diego: Like you see like the heroes getting to such an intense point of confrontation, the hero and the villain getting to such an intense point of confrontation that it's almost like they lose consciousness of everything around them.

01:00:10.881 --> 01:00:11.401
Joshua: Like all they do.

01:00:11.421 --> 01:00:12.061
Diego: And it's shown.

01:00:12.081 --> 01:00:12.861
Joshua: Yeah.

01:00:12.901 --> 01:00:14.601
Diego: And it's shown visually, right?

01:00:14.621 --> 01:00:16.401
Diego: Like they're in a different dimension almost.

01:00:17.881 --> 01:00:29.921
Diego: We saw that in live action, and it was like seeing them fight and seeing the blows landing and stuff like that in the middle of that last fight in Apollo 3, in Creed 3, was very different.

01:00:29.941 --> 01:00:32.501
Diego: Stop laughing at me.

01:00:32.521 --> 01:00:32.861
Joshua: Okay.

01:00:32.881 --> 01:00:40.701
Joshua: I think some, if you took those aspects of anime, that in anime are very cinematic.

01:00:41.221 --> 01:01:03.921
Joshua: Like those scenes, like also the scenes in Creed 3 where Adonis, let's say, uppercuts the guy into his stomach, and you can see, it goes slow motion, and you see just Adonis's face, and like the sweat coming off the guy's back, like flying off, and Adonis is just like standing there like, that's pretty, that's cool.

01:01:03.941 --> 01:01:04.441
Diego: Yeah, yeah.

01:01:04.701 --> 01:01:06.901
Joshua: And like that, it's cinematic.

01:01:06.921 --> 01:01:09.101
Joshua: It's so cinematic, that slow motion.

01:01:09.641 --> 01:01:11.881
Joshua: Like some of those aspects are cool.

01:01:12.441 --> 01:01:21.801
Joshua: If they're, if it's only some of, let me like, collect myself here.

01:01:21.901 --> 01:01:22.981
Diego: Collect thyselves, then?

01:01:23.881 --> 01:01:49.681
Joshua: If you're using those cinematic things in an anime, and converting those specifically into live action, that works, but if you're using everything from an anime, all of the little quirky little things that have to, that come along with being an anime into live action, then I don't think it would work as well.

01:01:50.061 --> 01:01:52.201
Diego: Maybe not, maybe not.

01:01:52.221 --> 01:01:53.901
Joshua: I think like in moderation.

01:01:54.741 --> 01:01:55.801
Diego: Yeah, I suppose.

01:01:56.541 --> 01:02:01.121
Diego: But again, I do think that there is still like undiscovered territory there.

01:02:01.881 --> 01:02:07.941
Diego: There is a translation that is missing still.

01:02:08.001 --> 01:02:13.381
Joshua: Like they can add something to those weird pause still moments that can-

01:02:13.401 --> 01:02:31.701
Diego: Yeah, that and some other elements, you know, some again, some of the elements that are unique to anime, I think there's still an opportunity there for the right creative mind to like come in and show a new interpretation of that in live action without sacrificing those key storytelling elements.

01:02:32.861 --> 01:02:34.221
Diego: Does it worry you at all?

01:02:34.621 --> 01:02:36.501
Diego: Kind of shifting now to a final point here.

01:02:36.521 --> 01:02:48.441
Diego: Does it worry you at all that the West is embracing anime so much and that it might become diluted in some way or that it might become like so part of the mainstream?

01:02:49.181 --> 01:02:54.281
Diego: And maybe that's happening already that it like loses its charm in a way.

01:02:55.561 --> 01:03:11.101
Joshua: I think with anime, or at least yet, that it'll be one of those things where like it's really popular, but now it's so popular and everyone knows about it, that it's like lost its coolness.

01:03:12.121 --> 01:03:23.201
Joshua: I think anime is one of those things where it'll stay cool for the people that are actually interested in a specific thing about it.

01:03:23.761 --> 01:03:38.901
Joshua: Like say Attack on Titan, the story of Attack on Titan, like I like it so much that let's say like people start like boycotting anime because of something that happens.

01:03:39.041 --> 01:03:47.641
Joshua: Right, I will stay on my side of the couple of animes that I am like really that I really like.

01:03:47.961 --> 01:03:53.241
Joshua: I'll stay on the side of all of those animes because I think that they like did something special.

01:03:53.961 --> 01:03:56.021
Diego: You'll download it illegally from the Pirate Bay.

01:03:56.041 --> 01:03:58.321
Joshua: I'll download it illegally from Pirate Bay.

01:03:58.781 --> 01:03:59.901
Diego: Not that I've ever done that.

01:04:00.101 --> 01:04:01.121
Joshua: Not that you've ever done that.

01:04:01.121 --> 01:04:01.881
Diego: Or LineWire.

01:04:02.561 --> 01:04:03.841
Diego: Not that I ever did that.

01:04:05.581 --> 01:04:06.961
Diego: LineWire is another Pirate Bay.

01:04:06.981 --> 01:04:08.801
Diego: It's a P2P sharing platform.

01:04:08.821 --> 01:04:10.761
Diego: But again, not that I've ever used it or anything like that.

01:04:10.781 --> 01:04:12.441
Joshua: Yeah, you just have like extensive knowledge.

01:04:12.561 --> 01:04:13.941
Diego: Just like wiki research.

01:04:14.161 --> 01:04:14.501
Joshua: Yeah.

01:04:14.521 --> 01:04:15.221
Diego: That sort of thing.

01:04:15.721 --> 01:04:23.101
Diego: Whatever the case is, man, I prefer living in this reality where anime is accepted in the West.

01:04:23.781 --> 01:04:24.441
Diego: You know what I mean?

01:04:24.821 --> 01:04:30.101
Diego: Where it is a thing that is being respected and recognized right alongside any other form of storytelling.

01:04:32.021 --> 01:04:43.161
Diego: I love the fact that every once in a while, I'm going to get a notification from AMC telling me that there's a new anime movie showing at the theater that we could go watch that thing in the theater.

01:04:45.681 --> 01:04:59.281
Diego: It's a validation for the people who have been anime fans for a very, very long time since way back before it was a popularly accepted thing, and it could get you beat up on the way to the snack truck after school.

01:04:59.641 --> 01:05:00.401
Joshua: If you had that.

01:05:00.501 --> 01:05:01.301
Diego: If you had that, right?

01:05:01.321 --> 01:05:01.861
Diego: Not that I did.

01:05:03.161 --> 01:05:04.821
Diego: It's validation, you know?

01:05:05.601 --> 01:05:11.921
Diego: And I think that's a really, really cool thing, because again, anime, it may not be for everybody.

01:05:12.381 --> 01:05:12.801
Diego: It's not.

01:05:12.821 --> 01:05:14.641
Diego: That form of storytelling isn't for everybody.

01:05:14.661 --> 01:05:18.981
Diego: But for those of us who appreciate it, man, it is so awesome to be able to have it accessible.

01:05:19.201 --> 01:05:22.361
Diego: Watch it on Hulu, watch it on Netflix, watch it on Crunchyroll, you know, whatever.

01:05:22.381 --> 01:05:28.181
Joshua: Yeah, I do think that anime is definitely a revolutionary type of storytelling.

01:05:28.201 --> 01:05:28.801
Diego: It is, man.

01:05:29.381 --> 01:05:30.201
Diego: It's very unique.

01:05:30.621 --> 01:05:39.061
Diego: And if it has to remain in the hands primarily of Japanese companies and Japanese animators to keep its identity, I prefer to do that.

01:05:39.161 --> 01:05:39.421
Joshua: Yeah.

01:05:39.721 --> 01:05:42.441
Diego: You know, like I don't need it to be appropriated by the West.

01:05:43.041 --> 01:05:43.561
Diego: Not really.

01:05:43.761 --> 01:05:47.061
Diego: Maybe to the extent of like the old Transformers show, right?

01:05:47.621 --> 01:05:51.561
Diego: Where like it was a Western company hiring Japanese animators to animate the show.

01:05:51.581 --> 01:05:52.101
Diego: All right, fine.

01:05:52.121 --> 01:05:52.521
Diego: That's cool.

01:05:52.701 --> 01:05:52.981
Diego: Right.

01:05:53.001 --> 01:05:59.141
Diego: But aside from that, like, keep it in the hands of the culture that has made it the beautiful thing that it is.

01:05:59.961 --> 01:06:02.301
Diego: I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

01:06:02.321 --> 01:06:03.941
Diego: But I'm glad it's over here.

01:06:03.961 --> 01:06:04.961
Diego: I'm glad it's popular.

01:06:05.301 --> 01:06:06.461
Diego: I'm glad it's accessible.

01:06:06.781 --> 01:06:09.901
Diego: And I'm glad that I don't have to call him Olly Red Atom anymore.

01:06:10.801 --> 01:06:16.961
Joshua: And I'm glad that I won't get beat up on my way to the snack truck after school.

01:06:17.041 --> 01:06:18.841
Diego: You can wear an R to shirt to school.

01:06:18.881 --> 01:06:20.021
Joshua: I can proudly.

01:06:20.201 --> 01:06:22.201
Joshua: I'll get bullied, but I won't get beat up.

01:06:22.281 --> 01:06:22.581
Diego: Yes.

01:06:22.941 --> 01:06:28.181
Diego: And if a Bluck Boster existed nowadays, there would definitely be an anime section.

01:06:28.741 --> 01:06:30.541
Joshua: I just had like an aneurysm.

01:06:30.601 --> 01:06:31.461
Diego: Bluck Boster.

01:06:31.481 --> 01:06:32.901
Joshua: Bluck Boster.

01:06:33.321 --> 01:06:36.361
Joshua: You just said those words came out of your mouth.

01:06:36.381 --> 01:06:37.101
Diego: I'm owning it.

01:06:38.201 --> 01:06:39.221
Diego: Bluck Boster.

01:06:39.241 --> 01:06:39.721
Diego: I'm owning it.

01:06:40.101 --> 01:06:42.241
Joshua: That is like just disgusting.

01:06:42.241 --> 01:06:43.441
Diego: Suffer in silence, boy.

01:06:43.461 --> 01:06:45.581
Diego: There are no audible inner thoughts in here.

01:06:45.601 --> 01:06:46.541
Diego: We're not in an anime.

01:06:52.517 --> 01:06:58.617
Diego: Thank you all for joining us on this episode on the rise of anime in the Western world.

01:06:58.637 --> 01:07:07.497
Diego: We had a great time researching for this thing, talking about it, preparing for this episode, and a great time, of course, actually having the conversation with you all.

01:07:07.817 --> 01:07:17.437
Diego: If there's anything we missed, if you're just like us, like if somebody doesn't mention your favorite anime, you feel insulted that they didn't, reach out to us and let us know.

01:07:17.457 --> 01:07:18.757
Diego: Let us know what we missed.

01:07:18.777 --> 01:07:20.877
Diego: We're always up for continuing the discussion.

01:07:21.557 --> 01:07:27.417
Diego: Remember, you can learn about the podcast, learn about us as your hosts over on our website.

01:07:27.437 --> 01:07:30.617
Diego: That's geekology101.com.

01:07:30.637 --> 01:07:33.877
Diego: There you have access to all of our feeds, including our YouTube feed.

01:07:33.897 --> 01:07:38.537
Diego: And if you haven't been following us yet on YouTube, go and subscribe to our channel.

01:07:39.077 --> 01:07:44.777
Diego: You can also go all the way down to the bottom of the page, and there you'll have a way to contact us or...

01:07:45.037 --> 01:07:52.117
Joshua: If you want to hit us up through more traditional means, you can contact us at g101podcasts at gmail.com.

01:07:52.217 --> 01:07:53.317
Diego: Thank you all for listening.

01:07:53.337 --> 01:07:54.737
Diego: We'll catch you in the next episode.

01:07:55.677 --> 01:08:04.837
Joshua: Extremely long episode all about me charging up an attack as I am having an inner monologue and unlocking five entirely new powers.

01:08:05.137 --> 01:08:07.557
Diego: That was about as long as Bakugo's superhero name.