Geekology 101
Geeky conversations between a father and son! We dive into all things pop culture. Movies, shows, comics, music, books, games, toys, and more! Each episode we focus on a single topic and we'll even bring some friends along to keep the geeky conversation going! Visit us at https://www.geekology101.com
Geekology 101
174: Religion & Belief In Fiction
The deepest, most existential themes in human life always make it into the stories we create. In this episode, Joshua and Diego dive into how religion and belief inspire and influence some of the most popular stuff out there. And don't worry... this is not a religious debate. Just good ol' geek talk.
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Diego: Welcome to Geekology 101.
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Diego: My name is Diego.
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Joshua: And my name is Joshua.
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Diego: And today, we're going to talk about religion and belief and the role of religion and belief within fiction and pop culture and storytelling across the board.
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Diego: And this is a, this is a, it can be a dicey topic.
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Diego: So we want to just make it real clear right off the bat.
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Diego: We're not trying to attack any particular religions, anybody's belief systems.
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Diego: Yeah, the opener was a joke.
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Joshua: It was, I mean, like it was, it was a joke.
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Diego: Yeah, we're not, we're not trying to attack any religions, but religion is actually, it's a very interesting thing, the way that religion makes its way into fictional stories, like all the time.
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Joshua: Yeah, like a lot of, a lot of fiction, it like deals with religion in different ways.
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Diego: Yeah.
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Diego: Some of it deals with it more kind of like literal coming off of like the, what their scriptures or traditions actually say about their gods and that sort of thing.
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Diego: And others, like they come with a twist to those original stories, right?
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Diego: So like, what's, what's one example for, for instance, that stands out to you from any sort of fiction that has incorporated some sort of religion in some way?
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Joshua: One example I had was this character, Joshua Graham.
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Joshua: Yes, he shares the same first name as me.
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Diego: It's so man, you just had to throw your name out there.
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Diego: I asked example.
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Joshua: I mean, I mean, yeah, that's just how I Joshua Graham, what is that?
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Joshua: He is from the fallout games.
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Joshua: And he is like a devout Christian, but like they don't the games, they don't deal with it in a bad way.
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Joshua: It's just like, just a fact, like he does everything that he does for God.
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Diego: So there's religions active in that game?
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Joshua: Yeah, like even after all of the like nuclear war and stuff that is like torn through the world, like he, okay, so he's like the leader of this group.
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Joshua: And he is like the most devout Christian ever.
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Joshua: So I guess even after all of this war that has gone on through the world, religion is still like very active and still plays a big part in what people do.
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Diego: So does his like religiousness or beliefs factor in somehow into the story?
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Diego: Like does it impact the story in some way?
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Joshua: It doesn't really impact the story, but I think the like the part that I that was interesting to me is that like the writers who, the person who created the character of Joshua Graham Graham was actually like atheist, like he didn't believe in any Christianity.
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Joshua: He just wanted to represent someone who isn't bad with his Christianity or isn't necessarily good.
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Joshua: It's he's just like he just believes in God and that's just something about him.
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Joshua: It doesn't make him bad.
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Joshua: Doesn't make him good.
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Diego: So just like acknowledging that, okay, you know, like there are people in the regular world that have all, you know, different beliefs and whatever.
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Joshua: Yeah.
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Diego: So there's no reason why in like a fictional story, there wouldn't be people who just happen to have like a particular belief, but that doesn't necessarily factor into the bigger story or whatever.
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Joshua: But like his belief does kind of like drive him.
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Joshua: Like that is one of the main things about him.
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Diego: So he speaks about it?
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Joshua: Yeah.
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Joshua: He's like one of the coolest characters in that game too.
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Diego: Interesting.
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Diego: Yeah, there is one story that I actually just thought about was the Book of Eli, the movie with Denzel Washington and Mila Kunis.
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Diego: That movie is really interesting because like the whole, I mean, spoiler alert, I guess.
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Diego: But like the whole plot of the movie is that there's this guy who is transporting in a post-apocalyptic world, he's transporting the last Bible, because all the Bibles were, all the books actually were destroyed.
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Joshua: So the Bible is the last book left?
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Diego: That particular Bible is like one of the last books left in the world, apparently.
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Diego: And this guy has it, and he's transporting it.
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Diego: And it's interesting because the, and you know that it's the Bible like pretty early on, right?
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Diego: And there's a villain who knows that the Bible is a book that has been utilized so many times throughout human history for man acquiring power, because it allows a man to speak like supposedly on behalf of a god, you know?
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Diego: So it's not like people have to take his words on his own authority, no, like he's speaking on behalf of a god, therefore it's like, oh, you know, we gotta fear him.
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Diego: And he wanted that power, right?
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Joshua: The villain?
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Diego: And so the whole, you know, crux of the story is this villain sending a whole squad of his like warriors to go and try to get this guy.
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Diego: But this guy is an absolute badass, basically a ninja.
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Joshua: And he is the is the guy, is he like a believer?
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Diego: That's the thing.
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Diego: And that was actually the point that I was going towards, that in this one, you don't actually get too deep into, like, how much does this guy believe?
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Diego: Clearly, he must believe that there is a God and that God gave him a mission, right?
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Diego: And he goes to great, great lengths to secure the Bible and get it to its final destination.
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Diego: Again, spoiler alert, if you haven't seen this movie, you totally should watch this movie.
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Diego: It is a very, very good movie.
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Diego: I think one of the most, like, underrated movies of that time period, like 2010s or whatever, whenever it is it came out.
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Diego: But he ends up getting there, and he gets the Bible taken away from him at a certain point.
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Joshua: Yeah.
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Diego: And the villain gets it, and the Bible has, like, a lock mechanism to it.
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Diego: And so the villain finally unlocks it, and when he opens it, the Bible is written in Braille.
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Joshua: In, like, the language for blind people?
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Diego: What blind people use to read, yeah.
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Diego: And so then there's, again, plot, you know, spoiler alert, then there's a huge plot twist that this guy is actually blind.
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Joshua: The guy who is transporting the Bible?
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Diego: Yep.
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Joshua: Wait, so was that Bible, like, specially made for him?
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Diego: No, it was just a Bible.
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Diego: There's Bibles out there written in Braille for blind people.
00:07:16.862 --> 00:07:20.262
Diego: And so he was carrying this Bible written in Braille.
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Diego: He was blind and has this incredible skill set that we have no clue how he acquired.
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Diego: And then even though he had the Bible taken away, when he gets to the safety zone, which is an organ, a group of survivors from the Holocaust that are trying to preserve human history and human works of art, so that it's basically the world's last library and stuff is there.
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Diego: And he gets there and he says, I have a copy of the King James version of the Bible.
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Diego: And the guy who runs that place, oh, it's in Alcatraz, actually, this place.
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Joshua: Like the prison?
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Diego: The prison, yeah.
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Diego: They turned it into this refuge.
00:08:00.642 --> 00:08:04.802
Diego: And the guy who's running the place is like, oh my God, we haven't seen the Bible.
00:08:04.822 --> 00:08:07.482
Diego: We have a copy of the Koran and a copy of something else.
00:08:07.502 --> 00:08:10.382
Diego: I think the Vedas and something else.
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Diego: And he's like, but we don't have a holy Bible.
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Diego: Where is it?
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Diego: I can't wait to see it.
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Diego: And he's like, it's right here.
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Diego: He memorized the entire Bible verse by verse.
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Joshua: Wait, so what happened to that physical Bible?
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Diego: The villain got it, but he couldn't do anything with it because he didn't know how to read Braille.
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Diego: Yeah.
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Diego: And so like he starts dictating the Bible.
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Diego: In the beginning, there was, in the beginning was God, and the earth was void, and blah, blah, blah.
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Diego: He starts telling the whole thing.
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Joshua: He starts becoming the narrator.
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Diego: He is the Bible, basically.
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Joshua: Yeah.
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Joshua: That's cool.
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Diego: It's really, really cool.
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Diego: And so their dictator writing it by hand, and at the end, they collect the entire thing, and then they print it.
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Diego: They print out a fresh copy of the Bible coming from this guy's mind to memory.
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Diego: So you can tell that story.
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Diego: Just telling the whole story, it gives you chills.
00:09:00.742 --> 00:09:02.762
Diego: It's like, oh, man, that's epic.
00:09:02.782 --> 00:09:05.242
Diego: That's a crazy ending, and there's twists and everything.
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Diego: So it's like religion is a part of that story, but it's completely in the backdrop in a way.
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Diego: The point of it is not religion.
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Joshua: The point of it is the story.
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Diego: The point of it, I think, is belief and the drive of belief, which for a lot of people, what matters most to them about religion is not necessarily the mythological part or like, were Adam and Eve real?
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Diego: Was there an actual physical geographical garden of Eden?
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Diego: Is Satan an actual fallen angel who turned into it?
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Diego: You know what I mean?
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Diego: For a lot of people, all it is is the stories become a source of belief and that motivates them for life.
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Diego: And like that story, the Book of Eli is definitely that, you know, but I feel like that is one big take that fiction can take a lot of times for religion and for beliefs.
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Diego: It's like the point is the effect of belief.
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Joshua: Like the motivation?
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Diego: Yeah.
00:10:08.642 --> 00:10:13.182
Diego: And it's not about whether the mythologies are real or not, right?
00:10:13.482 --> 00:10:17.102
Diego: It's more about the effect on the person, the positive effect on the person.
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Diego: But there are other stories that take a different route.
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Joshua: Where it's like all about the mythology, which is kind of like something that I was thinking about earlier, which it does have to do with Dishonored, everyone's favorite game again.
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Diego: Good Lord.
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Joshua: But yeah, the religion in Dishonored is actually like in the story.
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Joshua: It's like frowned down upon by everybody in the world, but like a few people who, like the rest of the world basically call heretics.
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Joshua: And the God is the outsider, who is the one that grants everybody powers.
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Joshua: And basically, the entire thing is mythological, like everything that has to do with him.
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Joshua: Like, you get these whale bones that are like mythically infused with like the outsiders, like binds and stuff.
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Diego: So it's not just mythology in that case, like there is an actual God.
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Joshua: Yeah, there is a God.
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Joshua: He is like very real in the story.
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Joshua: And there's like this entire group of, they're called overseers, and they're supposed to basically keep that religion from spreading in the world.
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Joshua: Like that's their only job, to like get rid of heretics and heresy, and they like protect and find everything that has to do with that.
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Diego: Interesting.
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Diego: So religion is a big part of that story.
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Joshua: I had no clue.
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Joshua: Yeah, like that's the only reason that the main character has his like powers.
00:11:54.502 --> 00:11:56.922
Joshua: And yeah, it's pretty cool.
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Joshua: It's a really big part of that story.
00:11:58.942 --> 00:12:02.242
Diego: There's also things like Game of Thrones, for example.
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Diego: In Game of Thrones, when the whole thing begins, religion is like completely just in the background.
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Joshua: Yeah.
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Diego: Because it's a made up world.
00:12:10.742 --> 00:12:15.242
Diego: And so like each region of that world has its different gods that they pray to.
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Diego: There's like the old gods, which are like the gods of the people who first inhabited those lands, thinking like the natives of Westeros, then there's the new gods, who are this group of seven gods, it's like a pantheon of seven gods.
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Diego: Then there's another one that is the Lord of Light, which is like a god of fire or something like that.
00:12:35.482 --> 00:12:43.082
Diego: And then there's gods from the Valyrian religions, and there's the many-faced god.
00:12:43.642 --> 00:12:47.982
Diego: So there's the drowned god, which is like this god of the people who live by the ocean and stuff like that.
00:12:48.002 --> 00:12:49.882
Joshua: So there's like a bunch of different gods.
00:12:49.902 --> 00:12:51.202
Diego: Yeah, a ton of different gods.
00:12:51.362 --> 00:12:52.862
Diego: There's actually this song by...
00:12:54.122 --> 00:12:55.382
Diego: I told you about this recently.
00:12:55.402 --> 00:12:57.202
Diego: I think it's A$AP Rocky and...
00:12:58.142 --> 00:12:58.862
Diego: Who was it?
00:12:59.462 --> 00:13:02.502
Diego: A$AP Rocky and...
00:13:03.782 --> 00:13:04.402
Diego: Man, I forget.
00:13:04.642 --> 00:13:11.422
Diego: And someone else, there was this album that was made for one of the seasons of Game of Thrones, and a whole bunch of artists who were fans of the show recorded different songs for it.
00:13:12.082 --> 00:13:14.122
Diego: And this one is called Too Many Gods.
00:13:14.822 --> 00:13:23.182
Diego: And it's a really cool song which pulls inspiration from that whole reality of how many gods there were in Westeros in Game of Thrones.
00:13:23.302 --> 00:13:32.342
Diego: And it's like, you know, tell me what we pray for, too many gods, something, something, something, too many gods.
00:13:32.362 --> 00:13:37.722
Diego: So they play around with that, too many gods, as in you're praying too many gods, but there's also too many gods.
00:13:38.402 --> 00:13:39.582
Diego: Yeah.
00:13:39.662 --> 00:13:43.002
Diego: Anyway, so you never know in Game of Thrones.
00:13:44.522 --> 00:13:49.002
Diego: It starts off with everybody's gods are equally non-existent, really.
00:13:49.682 --> 00:13:53.242
Diego: You kind of think that they're just mythologies.
00:13:54.402 --> 00:14:02.962
Diego: But as the show progresses, it becomes actually crazy clear that, no, wait a minute, there's actually a couple of these gods that are real.
00:14:03.122 --> 00:14:06.742
Joshua: They're like real, like they have bodies?
00:14:06.822 --> 00:14:11.342
Diego: Not because you see them, but you can, the power is real, you know?
00:14:11.562 --> 00:14:13.782
Diego: Like, their priests are the people who represent them.
00:14:14.322 --> 00:14:15.482
Diego: They're not joking around.
00:14:15.502 --> 00:14:18.462
Diego: Like, they got actual magical, mystical powers.
00:14:18.482 --> 00:14:20.122
Joshua: Like, granted by those gods?
00:14:20.142 --> 00:14:20.602
Diego: For sure.
00:14:20.622 --> 00:14:21.502
Diego: 100%.
00:14:21.522 --> 00:14:32.642
Diego: And so, it's like really interesting how little by little as the story progresses, you start seeing which ones are the fake ones that are manmade and which ones are the real ones, you know, that stand the test of time and that show true power.
00:14:33.362 --> 00:14:40.962
Diego: So like that one, Game of Thrones, is one where it starts off looking mythological, but then it proves that, no, no, there's actually some real gods at play here.
00:14:42.002 --> 00:15:02.802
Joshua: I kind of forgot to mention that, like, throughout the course of the story, like, the outsider, the god in that story, is not what drives, like the main character didn't really, he wasn't a believer in any of that before the outsider came to him after he had been betrayed and granted him his mark, which gives him his powers.
00:15:03.082 --> 00:15:06.642
Joshua: But he doesn't really drive the character in any way.
00:15:07.242 --> 00:15:22.222
Joshua: But, like, after every milestone that the character reaches in the story, the outsider kind of, like, reaches out to him, pulls him into the void, is what, like, that version of, like, heaven, I guess, is called.
00:15:23.102 --> 00:15:30.382
Joshua: And he, like, talks to him about how he's basically the one that, like, saved him.
00:15:30.462 --> 00:15:34.282
Joshua: And he's been, like, without him, then he wouldn't have gotten this far.
00:15:34.722 --> 00:15:57.482
Joshua: So he does actually, like, it's really interesting, because the whole point of the story is that the empress got killed, and, like, they blamed the main character for it, but the outsider was actually the one who granted the powers to the one who killed the empress.
00:15:58.122 --> 00:16:02.682
Joshua: But he also granted powers to Corvo, who was supposed to protect the empress.
00:16:03.242 --> 00:16:05.382
Joshua: So he's, like, kind of playing both sides.
00:16:05.402 --> 00:16:07.702
Diego: Yeah, pulling both strings on both sides.
00:16:08.542 --> 00:16:11.042
Diego: A little bit of a Darth Sidious thing going on.
00:16:11.062 --> 00:16:12.042
Joshua: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:16:12.522 --> 00:16:17.602
Diego: Well, talking, shifting now to talk about a different video game that we both really love, Assassin's Creed.
00:16:17.602 --> 00:16:18.102
Joshua: Yes.
00:16:18.442 --> 00:16:21.282
Diego: There, there, there's an interesting take on gods, too.
00:16:21.302 --> 00:16:22.082
Joshua: With the Isu?
00:16:22.122 --> 00:16:23.802
Diego: Yeah, the Isu are...
00:16:24.922 --> 00:16:35.542
Diego: It's interesting, because, like, they are clearly identified as gods that have, that we've named in our mythologies, like the Greek Pantheon, the Roman gods.
00:16:35.822 --> 00:16:42.922
Diego: We've given them different names, and so it's very, again, very easy to think, like, okay, yeah, they're just mythological gods, you know, they're not really real.
00:16:42.922 --> 00:16:53.462
Diego: But in the case of Assassin's Creed, the Isu are actually based on this, like, prehistoric, very advanced civilization of superhuman beings.
00:16:53.482 --> 00:16:55.322
Joshua: Like, they're not really gods.
00:16:55.862 --> 00:16:58.782
Joshua: It's just, like, too irregular human.
00:16:59.402 --> 00:17:04.422
Joshua: They're, like, such an advanced, powerful civilization that they're basically like gods to us.
00:17:04.442 --> 00:17:05.122
Diego: Yeah.
00:17:05.142 --> 00:17:10.602
Diego: And Assassin's Creed plays a lot with that whole notion, which is kind of like a conspiracy theory out there.
00:17:11.042 --> 00:17:21.922
Diego: The notion that there was some sort of existing civilization before that got to, like, great, great heights of scientific knowledge and advancement, and something wiped them out.
00:17:21.942 --> 00:17:22.382
Joshua: Yeah.
00:17:22.782 --> 00:17:26.242
Joshua: And I think in Assassin's Creed, it was like a solar flare or something.
00:17:26.262 --> 00:17:26.842
Diego: Is that what it was?
00:17:26.862 --> 00:17:27.582
Joshua: I can't remember that part.
00:17:27.602 --> 00:17:28.922
Joshua: Yeah, that wiped out the Isu.
00:17:29.422 --> 00:17:37.182
Diego: But all the artifacts, like the Apple of Eden and all this kind of stuff, were artifacts created by them and, what is it, imbued with their power?
00:17:37.222 --> 00:17:37.822
Joshua: Imbued.
00:17:37.842 --> 00:17:38.302
Diego: Imbued.
00:17:38.422 --> 00:17:39.002
Joshua: Embedded?
00:17:39.022 --> 00:17:39.522
Joshua: I don't know.
00:17:39.542 --> 00:17:41.502
Diego: Yeah, imbued, imbued, imbued.
00:17:41.602 --> 00:17:45.642
Diego: Anyway, but the whole concept there is interesting.
00:17:45.662 --> 00:17:58.302
Diego: It's like, yes, there are actually real beings that these things were based off of, but no, they weren't gods, they were just highly advanced predecessors to humanity.
00:17:58.362 --> 00:18:00.162
Diego: That's an interesting take on it, right?
00:18:00.182 --> 00:18:06.922
Joshua: And only the highest templars and the highest assassins really know.
00:18:06.942 --> 00:18:07.502
Diego: Know the truth.
00:18:07.522 --> 00:18:07.982
Joshua: Yeah.
00:18:08.102 --> 00:18:08.482
Diego: Right.
00:18:09.642 --> 00:18:11.202
Diego: So that's one interesting take.
00:18:11.222 --> 00:18:19.802
Diego: And then you've got, of course, takes like the alien as a god or the science as a god approach.
00:18:20.222 --> 00:18:22.482
Diego: Let's say like Marvel takes, right?
00:18:22.742 --> 00:18:26.942
Diego: The Marvel pantheon of gods, you've got like the Asgardian gods, for example.
00:18:27.042 --> 00:18:29.442
Joshua: Like Loki, Odin.
00:18:29.462 --> 00:18:29.882
Joshua: Yeah.
00:18:30.222 --> 00:18:36.902
Diego: Who are on earth had been worshiped as gods, but in reality, they're just aliens.
00:18:37.162 --> 00:18:37.602
Joshua: Yeah.
00:18:38.262 --> 00:18:53.262
Diego: And like the whole power base and power set of these Asgardians gods, as Thor explains it to Jane in the first Thor movie, it's actually, he tells her like, you know, what you call magic, we call science.
00:18:53.342 --> 00:18:53.842
Joshua: Yeah.
00:18:53.902 --> 00:19:01.462
Diego: Like we've just gotten so far beyond what you guys know as science, that it's so advanced that it looks like magical to you.
00:19:01.642 --> 00:19:02.342
Joshua: Yeah.
00:19:02.342 --> 00:19:04.222
Diego: And that's a really interesting concept, you know?
00:19:04.742 --> 00:19:12.762
Diego: And so like Marvel doesn't really have, it kind of doesn't, doesn't, because like it doesn't really have gods in that sense.
00:19:12.782 --> 00:19:17.482
Diego: Like all those gods, and like there's even like the Roman gods and stuff like that that appear in Marvel and they're heroes.
00:19:17.502 --> 00:19:19.662
Joshua: They're basically just aliens.
00:19:19.682 --> 00:19:20.622
Joshua: They're just aliens.
00:19:20.642 --> 00:19:48.602
Joshua: But they like even refer, like in Thor, Love and Thunder, Thor, like he refers to them as like, as the place, I forgot what it was called, but like the place where all the gods, and he refers to them as gods, because I guess, I mean, I guess they are gods, but they're not like, as high, as high up and as like controlling as we think they are.
00:19:48.622 --> 00:19:54.102
Joshua: They're just aliens that have like influenced what people on earth have done.
00:19:54.242 --> 00:19:55.422
Diego: And in other planets, right?
00:19:55.442 --> 00:19:56.002
Joshua: Yeah, yeah.
00:19:56.382 --> 00:20:01.262
Diego: Yeah, because in that in Thor, Love and Thunder, you do see they meet in Mount Olympus, is it?
00:20:01.342 --> 00:20:04.262
Joshua: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what it was, which is a realm of planning.
00:20:04.282 --> 00:20:05.162
Diego: I don't know what that is.
00:20:05.482 --> 00:20:06.982
Diego: But they meet there.
00:20:07.002 --> 00:20:08.682
Joshua: It's like a lounge for the gods.
00:20:08.702 --> 00:20:15.302
Diego: Yeah, you see that it's like, there's a whole bunch of weird creatures in there, yeah, that were gods.
00:20:15.682 --> 00:20:20.362
Diego: So that means that in other planets, other galaxies and stuff like that, like their gods are also.
00:20:21.102 --> 00:20:34.042
Diego: And so like basically, within Marvel's logic, it feels like the whole thing of gods is really just the first civilizations that got to like a great, great level of advancement before the newer civilizations came around.
00:20:34.062 --> 00:20:38.242
Diego: Yeah, like humanity on earth, so that's one take.
00:20:38.942 --> 00:21:01.382
Joshua: Another take that I have like seen is the kind of cultish take, like that is like pretty negative showing of religion in Far Cry 5, which is a game, the main villain, I forgot, I forget what his name is, like father something.
00:21:02.062 --> 00:21:08.162
Joshua: His whole thing is that like, he's like obsessed with God, and it's like a like really violent cult.
00:21:09.002 --> 00:21:12.582
Joshua: And that's like the main villain that you have to defeat throughout the game.
00:21:13.122 --> 00:21:15.902
Joshua: But he has this entire family.
00:21:16.442 --> 00:21:21.442
Joshua: That's what you have to like build up through the game to finally get to him at the end.
00:21:22.362 --> 00:21:43.942
Joshua: But that take on religion is like kind of like very, like yucky, like, it's just like like it deals with religion in such a negative way compared to like what you said, like the Book of Eli or what was some of the other ones or like Game of Thrones.
00:21:43.962 --> 00:21:47.222
Joshua: It like deals with it in a very negative sense.
00:21:47.902 --> 00:22:01.222
Diego: I mean, it seems like it's kind of focusing in on the uglier side of religion, because everything that you just described this kind of it's out there like it's been done and it is being done.
00:22:01.242 --> 00:22:08.442
Joshua: I guess it was just trying to show how how sometimes religion can kind of like control someone a little bit too much.
00:22:08.462 --> 00:22:09.402
Diego: Yeah, for sure.
00:22:09.522 --> 00:22:09.902
Joshua: Yeah.
00:22:10.042 --> 00:22:10.342
Diego: Yeah.
00:22:10.362 --> 00:22:12.542
Diego: And I know firsthand that that's absolutely possible.
00:22:12.562 --> 00:22:18.202
Diego: So speaking of control through religion, then there's the Star Wars approach.
00:22:19.242 --> 00:22:19.602
Joshua: Yeah.
00:22:19.682 --> 00:22:24.662
Diego: So when Star Wars began the first three original movies, all you had really was the Jedi.
00:22:25.382 --> 00:22:25.802
Diego: You know?
00:22:26.982 --> 00:22:28.722
Diego: And the Sith.
00:22:29.162 --> 00:22:29.522
Joshua: Yeah.
00:22:30.682 --> 00:22:30.982
Diego: And...
00:22:31.002 --> 00:22:33.322
Joshua: Just like classic, like good and evil, basically.
00:22:33.862 --> 00:22:46.782
Diego: And then the deepest level that the mythology got to is that these two groups, these two sides were tapping into this force, right?
00:22:46.922 --> 00:22:48.422
Diego: The living force, which is...
00:22:50.082 --> 00:22:51.382
Diego: How is it that it's always described?
00:22:52.602 --> 00:23:00.082
Diego: It's a common force that is shared by all living things, or a living power that is generated by all living things.
00:23:00.102 --> 00:23:04.202
Diego: And all living things share that connection through that mystical force.
00:23:04.962 --> 00:23:10.082
Diego: And these guys tap into the light side of it, and these other guys tap into the dark side of it.
00:23:11.002 --> 00:23:26.422
Diego: But in reality, like in the first three movies, everything was just kind of left up to the point of the Jedi were more like Zen Buddhist monks, you know, like Buddhism is a religion or a belief system that doesn't necessarily have dogmas.
00:23:26.442 --> 00:23:33.842
Joshua: It doesn't really worship gods, like it just like kind of worships like the nature side of it doesn't worship it though.
00:23:34.162 --> 00:23:46.542
Diego: Not worship, but it like, it's all about introspection and self awareness and self knowledge and the realization of like how to eliminate suffering, like Buddhism is very different in that sense.
00:23:47.102 --> 00:23:55.122
Joshua: But like the Sith kind of tried to like, or what we saw is like that the Sith were trying to like control the force, kind of like.
00:23:55.342 --> 00:23:56.222
Diego: No, not really.
00:23:56.902 --> 00:24:04.382
Diego: No, they're both the Sith and the Jedi were both pretty much approaching the force similarly.
00:24:04.942 --> 00:24:13.422
Diego: My conclusion about the Sith and the Jedi is that the light side and the dark side of the force are less about the force itself and more about the person wielding the force.
00:24:14.002 --> 00:24:15.382
Joshua: Like what they do with it?
00:24:15.462 --> 00:24:20.062
Diego: Yeah, because the Jedi have like a list of tenets that they're supposed to stick to, you know?
00:24:20.322 --> 00:24:29.802
Diego: Like there's a reason why they're not supposed to like harbor any sort of romantic attachments, they're not supposed to get married, they're not supposed to bear children, they're not supposed to do any of that stuff, which some religions do.
00:24:29.822 --> 00:24:36.562
Diego: Like for example, Catholicism, priests, nuns, they're not supposed to ever get married, have children, anything of that sort.
00:24:36.622 --> 00:24:36.982
Joshua: Yeah.
00:24:37.162 --> 00:24:41.782
Diego: Because they're supposed to be completely devoted and attached to the church and to God and Jesus.
00:24:42.642 --> 00:24:51.502
Diego: And the Jedi are very similar, like the Jedi are very, very detached from everything, whereas the Sith, they embrace all sorts of passions within them.
00:24:51.902 --> 00:24:59.702
Diego: So like, anything from like, love to desire to anger to rage to, you know, all that stuff, like they don't shy away from it.
00:24:59.722 --> 00:25:18.322
Joshua: Like, they just, like, with Anakin and Palpatine, Palpatine was like really trying to like make Anakin kind of like forget about all those rules that the light side of the Force had, and just trying to like, let him embrace his feelings.
00:25:19.082 --> 00:25:31.582
Joshua: And like, that's why he went back and like killed all of the sand people, because Palpatine was like trying to, what's the word?
00:25:32.922 --> 00:25:36.822
Joshua: Just like, what's the word?
00:25:37.522 --> 00:25:39.602
Diego: I'm not sure what, like really unleash him?
00:25:39.962 --> 00:25:48.722
Joshua: Yeah, like unleash him so that he can actually let out, like, yeah, like let out the anger that he had all those years.
00:25:48.922 --> 00:25:54.782
Diego: Yeah, because as soon as he did, as he does that, he was going to start tasting a different side of the Force and of himself.
00:25:54.802 --> 00:25:55.302
Joshua: Yeah, yeah.
00:25:55.882 --> 00:25:57.222
Diego: And that's where the Sith are.
00:25:57.402 --> 00:26:03.622
Diego: But again, in the end, I think it really does a lot more to do with the person, but I think the Force is kind of neutral.
00:26:04.502 --> 00:26:08.002
Diego: And then comes the prequel trilogies, right?
00:26:08.382 --> 00:26:12.022
Diego: Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith.
00:26:12.842 --> 00:26:18.702
Diego: And friggin George Lucas kind of introduces this whole plot twist thing with the midichlorians.
00:26:18.722 --> 00:26:23.402
Joshua: Yeah, like if you don't have the midichlorians and like.
00:26:23.422 --> 00:26:23.642
Diego: Right.
00:26:24.082 --> 00:26:36.422
Diego: And so and so then he basically like attaches to this to this religious system or to this supernatural reality, he attaches a scientific reality now.
00:26:36.442 --> 00:26:44.902
Diego: Yeah, like this is something that has to do with a certain kind of organism, microscopic organism that lives inside of your being.
00:26:44.922 --> 00:26:51.102
Diego: And if you have a higher count of it, you're more like allergic to that force.
00:26:51.382 --> 00:26:53.622
Diego: And if you don't, then you're not going to be aware of it.
00:26:53.642 --> 00:27:00.102
Joshua: Yeah, like you're not that is that where like, the term force sensitive kind of started?
00:27:00.122 --> 00:27:07.682
Diego: Yeah, for sensitivity, according to now, the official canon technically has to do with the midichlorian count you have in your blood.
00:27:08.562 --> 00:27:10.282
Diego: And so that was weird.
00:27:10.902 --> 00:27:16.342
Diego: And I think there's a reason why they haven't focused in too heavily in like most of the storytelling.
00:27:16.422 --> 00:27:18.062
Diego: Yeah, they haven't focused in too heavily.
00:27:18.062 --> 00:27:26.862
Diego: I think the biggest mention that I've heard of it in recent times has been in the Mandalorian that they mentioned Grogu's midichlorian count being extremely high.
00:27:28.062 --> 00:27:34.702
Diego: And, and so like, that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, like a lot of people wanted to force to be a mystical thing.
00:27:34.722 --> 00:27:37.162
Diego: They wanted to force to be like a spiritual thing.
00:27:37.182 --> 00:27:44.922
Diego: They wanted it to be like, in the realm of religion and belief and mysticism, they didn't want it to be explained scientifically.
00:27:45.042 --> 00:27:50.562
Joshua: Yeah, like anybody, if you like believed enough in it, couldn't like tap into the force.
00:27:50.582 --> 00:27:50.902
Diego: Right.
00:27:51.762 --> 00:27:53.862
Diego: And so that was a weird decision.
00:27:53.882 --> 00:28:17.342
Diego: And then taking it even a step further within the Star Wars mythology and the Star Wars universe, then you've got what Dave Filoni did through the Clone Wars cartoon series where we literally got introduced to like force gods in the form of the mortis gods, who were this father, they're like a trinity, kind of like the father, son, holy spirit.
00:28:17.362 --> 00:28:19.662
Diego: But in this case, it was a father, a son, and a daughter.
00:28:20.682 --> 00:28:24.122
Diego: And the father represented the neutrality of the force.
00:28:24.562 --> 00:28:28.782
Diego: The son represented the dark side of the force, and the daughter the light side.
00:28:29.382 --> 00:28:32.662
Diego: And there's this whole storyline that has to do with these mortis gods.
00:28:32.742 --> 00:28:40.942
Diego: And in the end, they end up being kind of like the Asgardians and these alien species in Marvel.
00:28:41.102 --> 00:28:48.722
Joshua: So, so like it kind of went from like very mystical in the scientific back to like religion.
00:28:49.042 --> 00:28:56.382
Diego: Yeah, kind of because what ends up happening is like these people, these mortis gods, they're basically living in a separate galaxy.
00:28:56.402 --> 00:28:59.022
Diego: You know how everything takes place in a galaxy far, far away in Star Wars?
00:28:59.162 --> 00:29:00.362
Diego: Like it's one galaxy.
00:29:00.762 --> 00:29:04.342
Diego: So in a separate galaxy, that is also these people live.
00:29:04.362 --> 00:29:05.842
Diego: That's where their planet mortis is.
00:29:05.862 --> 00:29:06.182
Joshua: Yeah.
00:29:06.342 --> 00:29:08.782
Joshua: So they're actual like, they're beings.
00:29:08.922 --> 00:29:09.022
Diego: Yeah.
00:29:09.962 --> 00:29:14.422
Diego: And but they're like, they were like the first ones to ever tap into the force apparently.
00:29:14.542 --> 00:29:15.462
Joshua: So one of the first ones.
00:29:15.482 --> 00:29:17.202
Joshua: So did they like create the force?
00:29:17.402 --> 00:29:19.042
Diego: No, they just figured out how to wield it.
00:29:21.782 --> 00:29:26.922
Diego: And so then is like you're left like with a lot of questions, you know?
00:29:26.942 --> 00:29:27.262
Joshua: Yeah.
00:29:27.342 --> 00:29:33.642
Diego: Like, is this more of a scientific explanation or is it biological or is it more mystical?
00:29:33.662 --> 00:29:34.842
Diego: You know, like which one is it?
00:29:34.862 --> 00:29:35.882
Joshua: And it's kind of undefined.
00:29:35.962 --> 00:29:43.562
Joshua: Did those mortis gods, did they have like a crazy high midi-chlorian count or did they just tap into it?
00:29:44.082 --> 00:29:45.222
Joshua: It's like really weird.
00:29:45.242 --> 00:29:55.222
Joshua: The midi-chlorians, I feel like they kind of have a lot of retconning stuff that has to do with it.
00:29:55.882 --> 00:29:59.642
Joshua: I feel like that messed up what a lot of people's perceptions of the force were.
00:29:59.662 --> 00:30:03.842
Diego: I mean, just the fact that Anakin was conceived by midi-chlorians.
00:30:04.762 --> 00:30:06.202
Diego: Wrap your mind around that one.
00:30:06.362 --> 00:30:07.182
Joshua: Like how?
00:30:07.582 --> 00:30:07.822
Diego: Right.
00:30:07.842 --> 00:30:08.342
Joshua: Like what?
00:30:08.542 --> 00:30:13.342
Diego: There was no male involved in the creation of Anakin Skywalker.
00:30:15.622 --> 00:30:17.722
Joshua: Like he literally doesn't have a father.
00:30:17.902 --> 00:30:18.222
Diego: No.
00:30:18.322 --> 00:30:24.662
Diego: One day, Shmi was just pregnant with no involvement from any male.
00:30:24.682 --> 00:30:27.822
Diego: Which is very similar, of course, to the birth story of Jesus, right?
00:30:28.022 --> 00:30:33.902
Diego: That the Holy Spirit is the one that caused the pregnancy to start and marry, and then she was just pregnant.
00:30:36.142 --> 00:30:36.342
Joshua: Yeah.
00:30:36.682 --> 00:30:40.422
Joshua: But that is like God is Jesus' father in that sense.
00:30:40.882 --> 00:30:51.882
Joshua: But Anakin, when you say, oh, I don't have a dad, you're like, oh, everybody on earth had to have had a father, biologically.
00:30:52.402 --> 00:30:55.042
Joshua: But Anakin literally never had a father.
00:30:55.082 --> 00:30:55.782
Diego: Never, no.
00:30:56.142 --> 00:30:57.142
Joshua: Like how?
00:30:57.162 --> 00:30:57.842
Joshua: That makes...
00:30:59.062 --> 00:31:00.522
Joshua: Just the midichlorians, I guess.
00:31:00.722 --> 00:31:01.582
Diego: That is all.
00:31:01.602 --> 00:31:02.322
Diego: Yeah, it is.
00:31:02.422 --> 00:31:02.822
Diego: It is.
00:31:02.842 --> 00:31:05.282
Diego: That's what Qui-Gon Jinn said.
00:31:05.302 --> 00:31:07.402
Diego: He said that he was conceived by the midichlorians.
00:31:08.202 --> 00:31:12.402
Diego: And that's why he thought that he was the one who was promised in the prophecy and whatever.
00:31:13.942 --> 00:31:15.462
Diego: So that was interesting.
00:31:16.142 --> 00:31:17.502
Diego: You don't know where to land now.
00:31:17.502 --> 00:31:29.582
Diego: And now, for example, in the latest entry into the Star Wars canon, which is the Ahsoka show, you have Ahsoka who spent years apparently training Sabine, who was a Mandalorian.
00:31:30.642 --> 00:31:33.942
Diego: And Sabine was not force-sensitive, really.
00:31:35.242 --> 00:31:40.262
Diego: And yet she's able, she's been able to do a lot of stuff in the Force.
00:31:40.322 --> 00:31:53.742
Diego: And granted that was part of the story where she kind of like doubted that she was going to be able to do it because she's not, you know, she wasn't one of these younglings who was sought out to be part of the Jedi back in the day, you know, like, like, Kanan was who trained Ezra.
00:31:55.602 --> 00:31:57.982
Diego: And so like she was able to unlock it.
00:31:58.102 --> 00:31:59.462
Diego: How the heck did that happen?
00:31:59.462 --> 00:32:02.302
Diego: So I feel like I feel like a sense of inconsistency.
00:32:02.322 --> 00:32:13.282
Joshua: I feel like Star Wars, like some people in the like making of the newer Star Wars stuff, I feel like some of them like want to forget that midichlorians exist.
00:32:13.302 --> 00:32:16.662
Joshua: And then some of them are just like, it's already introduced.
00:32:16.682 --> 00:32:18.002
Joshua: So I guess we'll keep using it.
00:32:18.062 --> 00:32:19.482
Diego: Yeah.
00:32:19.482 --> 00:32:26.102
Diego: In any case, yeah, Star Wars has kind of gone back and forth when it comes to their whole belief system and mysticism and mythologies and stuff.
00:32:26.902 --> 00:32:30.202
Diego: And that's kind of just the direction that they've gone with it, I guess.
00:32:31.422 --> 00:32:37.122
Diego: And then you've got some other examples that kind of play along the lines of...
00:32:37.182 --> 00:32:42.442
Diego: We've already seen like gods as aliens, gods as...
00:32:42.502 --> 00:32:46.602
Diego: or mysticism or spirituality as science.
00:32:47.162 --> 00:32:51.802
Diego: We've seen gods as ancestors to humanity.
00:32:52.122 --> 00:32:56.182
Diego: I think another one that kind of falls into that category are the engineers from the aliens universe.
00:32:56.202 --> 00:32:57.062
Joshua: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:32:57.102 --> 00:32:58.162
Diego: Where they're like...
00:32:58.182 --> 00:33:00.062
Diego: It's all scientific for them, right?
00:33:00.062 --> 00:33:00.622
Joshua: Nobody...
00:33:00.642 --> 00:33:06.242
Joshua: Okay, I feel like nobody in the alien universe really calls them gods.
00:33:06.322 --> 00:33:14.042
Joshua: But to the standards of what a god is, they are basically gods to those creatures.
00:33:14.062 --> 00:33:20.482
Diego: For the majority of major religions, one of the biggest traits and most fundamental traits of a god...
00:33:20.622 --> 00:33:21.762
Joshua: Is that they created...
00:33:21.782 --> 00:33:22.582
Diego: Is being a creator.
00:33:22.602 --> 00:33:22.882
Joshua: Yeah.
00:33:23.022 --> 00:33:32.022
Diego: You know, so in that sense, these guys, they can terraform planets, they can change the atmospheric status of a planet to be habitable.
00:33:32.822 --> 00:33:38.582
Diego: They genetically engineer through that goo, that black goo, whatever the heck that is.
00:33:38.602 --> 00:33:39.042
Joshua: Yeah.
00:33:39.062 --> 00:33:42.442
Diego: They created the xenomorphs, you know, indirectly.
00:33:42.462 --> 00:33:45.282
Joshua: Yeah, and a bunch of other aliens for no reason.
00:33:45.382 --> 00:33:55.882
Diego: Yeah, and Prometheus, the movie Prometheus is one that plays really, really heavily with that whole concept of who is my creator and what am I to my creator and will I surpass my creator and all this stuff.
00:33:56.142 --> 00:33:58.562
Diego: You've got the engineers who created humanity, right?
00:33:58.802 --> 00:34:02.202
Diego: And then you got humanity who created the artificial intelligence, like the synthetics.
00:34:03.142 --> 00:34:03.582
Joshua: Yeah.
00:34:03.742 --> 00:34:15.222
Diego: But then you end up having David, the synthetic, who ended up becoming obsessed with this whole concept of why am I supposed to pay reverence to my creator humans when they're weaker than I am?
00:34:15.242 --> 00:34:16.322
Diego: I'm going to outlive them.
00:34:17.582 --> 00:34:22.702
Diego: And then he himself starts genetically manipulating using the engineer's goo and he's the one that creates the xenomorphs.
00:34:22.722 --> 00:34:26.222
Joshua: Didn't David create, like, yeah, David created a bunch of other creatures.
00:34:26.242 --> 00:34:27.122
Diego: Yeah, a ton of them.
00:34:27.142 --> 00:34:29.702
Diego: And he's the one ultimately responsible for the xenomorphs.
00:34:29.882 --> 00:34:30.482
Joshua: Wait, really?
00:34:31.402 --> 00:34:31.622
Diego: Oh.
00:34:31.702 --> 00:34:38.042
Diego: Yeah, he's the one that genetically manipulated and played around with it until he created what we know as the prototypical xenomorph.
00:34:39.062 --> 00:34:39.402
Diego: Yeah.
00:34:39.602 --> 00:34:40.562
Diego: It's pretty crazy.
00:34:40.582 --> 00:34:45.082
Diego: So it's like this whole chain of creation, like basically one person trying to one up the other.
00:34:45.502 --> 00:34:52.582
Joshua: Engineers created human life and a bunch of other creatures on different planets, it seems like.
00:34:53.002 --> 00:35:02.722
Joshua: And then humans created these creatures, synthetics, and then synthetics created xenomorphs, which basically...
00:35:02.782 --> 00:35:04.362
Diego: Which are wiping out everybody else.
00:35:04.382 --> 00:35:04.842
Joshua: Yeah.
00:35:05.502 --> 00:35:07.242
Joshua: So it's like an infinite loop.
00:35:07.302 --> 00:35:07.962
Diego: It kind of is.
00:35:08.042 --> 00:35:16.602
Diego: And then the interesting thing is that the xenomorphs then are in an infinite, truly infinite path of evolution.
00:35:17.502 --> 00:35:25.322
Diego: In the alien comics that have been told so far since Marvel took the rights of the comics, they've gone in many directions already.
00:35:25.342 --> 00:35:32.022
Diego: We're seeing subspecies and branching species of xenomorphs introduced that are very different from anything we've seen before.
00:35:32.042 --> 00:35:32.822
Joshua: Like could...
00:35:33.082 --> 00:35:40.542
Joshua: Is it possible for a xenomorph to spawn out of an engineer?
00:35:40.702 --> 00:35:41.922
Diego: Yeah, that happened already.
00:35:42.402 --> 00:35:45.602
Diego: Technically, well, a variation of that happened.
00:35:45.622 --> 00:35:54.062
Diego: That giant facehugger thing in Prometheus got on top of an engineer, and he laid an egg and out came what is called the deacon.
00:35:54.602 --> 00:35:56.662
Joshua: Oh, that's how the deacon was made?
00:35:56.682 --> 00:35:57.742
Diego: That's how the deacon was made.
00:35:57.762 --> 00:35:58.842
Diego: Yeah, he came out of an engineer.
00:35:58.862 --> 00:36:05.382
Diego: But we don't know what a modern day, quote unquote, modern day facehugger, impregnating an engineer would yield.
00:36:05.642 --> 00:36:10.202
Joshua: I mean, it would probably be a very large, strong xenomorph.
00:36:10.222 --> 00:36:11.582
Diego: Yeah, probably.
00:36:11.682 --> 00:36:13.762
Diego: But then again, we've already seen that.
00:36:13.782 --> 00:36:16.342
Joshua: Like with the gorilla xenomorph?
00:36:16.502 --> 00:36:16.882
Diego: Yeah, yeah.
00:36:16.902 --> 00:36:26.102
Diego: And if you haven't checked it out yet, go into our YouTube channel, look up Geekology 101 on YouTube, and go to Diego's Comics Dash playlist.
00:36:26.362 --> 00:36:31.522
Diego: In that playlist, I have a review of the Alien comics so far from Marvel.
00:36:32.702 --> 00:36:35.062
Diego: The video is like 20 minutes because I really geeked out.
00:36:35.082 --> 00:36:36.742
Joshua: Yeah, it's quite lengthy.
00:36:36.842 --> 00:36:43.722
Diego: Yeah, but I really go into detail about what is actually canon within the whole Alien story.
00:36:43.982 --> 00:36:50.162
Diego: And I talk about the engineers, and I talk about the movies, and I talk about the comics, and I talk about some of the different subspecies of Xenomorph.
00:36:50.182 --> 00:36:53.562
Diego: So check that out if you're into Aliens in that whole universe.
00:36:53.722 --> 00:37:00.422
Diego: But yeah, that's one where through science and creation, technically, engineers end up being God-like aliens.
00:37:00.462 --> 00:37:01.742
Joshua: God's aliens.
00:37:01.962 --> 00:37:02.562
Diego: Yeah, yeah.
00:37:02.942 --> 00:37:03.842
Diego: Then you got God of War.
00:37:04.322 --> 00:37:07.442
Diego: That one takes kind of a literal mythological path.
00:37:07.462 --> 00:37:12.222
Joshua: Like the gods are like just people, they're like just, well, not just people.
00:37:12.582 --> 00:37:20.462
Joshua: They are literally what, like they are what, like, let's take like the Greek gods part of God of War.
00:37:20.462 --> 00:37:24.802
Joshua: The Greek gods are literally what the humans like describe them to be.
00:37:24.862 --> 00:37:27.822
Joshua: Like literally exactly what the humans describe them to be.
00:37:28.002 --> 00:37:42.282
Diego: What I love about God of War and how it treats the whole thing of gods and religions though is that it acknowledges that all religions were actually right and real, and the belief systems and the gods and the characters were real all at the same time.
00:37:42.302 --> 00:37:43.042
Joshua: Exactly.
00:37:43.062 --> 00:37:43.922
Joshua: That's crazy.
00:37:43.942 --> 00:37:55.562
Joshua: Like every single, so that means like, so like the Norse gods, the Norse part of God of War, like all of those, they were dealing with different gods than the Greeks were.
00:37:56.102 --> 00:38:01.902
Joshua: So it was all different, like it's not like they all had different interpretations of the same thing.
00:38:02.382 --> 00:38:05.002
Joshua: It was, it's literally just all different pantheons.
00:38:05.642 --> 00:38:08.242
Diego: I cannot wait for God of War 2.
00:38:08.302 --> 00:38:11.102
Diego: I imagine eventually they're going to get into the Egyptian gods.
00:38:12.962 --> 00:38:16.342
Joshua: That's what originally the Norse gods was going to be.
00:38:16.442 --> 00:38:16.902
Diego: Oh, is that right?
00:38:16.922 --> 00:38:17.862
Joshua: It was going to be Egyptian.
00:38:17.882 --> 00:38:21.422
Joshua: So I'm assuming the next game is going to have the Egyptian.
00:38:21.442 --> 00:38:22.702
Diego: Oh, that's going to be epic, man.
00:38:22.722 --> 00:38:23.022
Joshua: Yeah.
00:38:23.122 --> 00:38:24.522
Diego: I would love to see that.
00:38:24.542 --> 00:38:35.382
Diego: The Egyptian gods, I think, having gotten a fair shake in fiction and stuff, the Moon Knight show, with the stab at it, that was kind of cool.
00:38:35.542 --> 00:38:37.062
Diego: I wanted to see more of that.
00:38:37.722 --> 00:38:38.562
Diego: It's a really cool thing.
00:38:38.582 --> 00:38:47.122
Diego: I just started reading my first time reading a comic series of Moon Knight, this mini series called Moon Knight City of the Dead.
00:38:47.802 --> 00:38:49.702
Diego: And that world is cool, man.
00:38:49.782 --> 00:38:54.282
Diego: I like the whole Egyptian flair to the whole superhero take.
00:38:54.882 --> 00:39:00.682
Joshua: I really want to see Kratos go up against Anubis, or team up with Horus or something.
00:39:00.702 --> 00:39:02.242
Diego: That would be so cool, man.
00:39:03.082 --> 00:39:04.662
Diego: So there's God of War.
00:39:05.182 --> 00:39:11.882
Diego: Then you've got in DC, on the DC side of things, the Greek gods play a huge role.
00:39:11.902 --> 00:39:13.562
Joshua: Yeah, like with Wonder Woman.
00:39:13.582 --> 00:39:16.982
Diego: Yeah, Wonder Woman is quite literally a descendant of the Greek gods.
00:39:17.002 --> 00:39:17.822
Joshua: And Shazam.
00:39:18.402 --> 00:39:19.722
Diego: Right, Shazam too, that's right.
00:39:20.122 --> 00:39:22.222
Diego: So you see Ares involved.
00:39:22.362 --> 00:39:29.042
Diego: And in the Wonder Woman comics, I remember back when in the New 52, I read the first few story arcs of Wonder Woman.
00:39:29.062 --> 00:39:30.722
Diego: They're very, very good stories.
00:39:30.742 --> 00:39:33.202
Joshua: And they have a lot to do with the Greek gods.
00:39:33.222 --> 00:39:37.302
Diego: All the Greek gods are constantly coming to Earth and just masquerading as humans.
00:39:37.302 --> 00:39:40.382
Joshua: Oh, so they're real, like they're entirely real, like all of them?
00:39:40.682 --> 00:39:41.362
Joshua: All of them are real.
00:39:41.382 --> 00:39:45.082
Joshua: So are they on a different realm, in a different planet or something?
00:39:45.102 --> 00:39:46.262
Diego: Yeah, they live in a different realm.
00:39:47.582 --> 00:39:51.722
Diego: But then also you've got these other kinds of gods, like the new gods in DC.
00:39:51.762 --> 00:39:52.122
Joshua: Yeah.
00:39:52.482 --> 00:39:53.282
Joshua: Like, um...
00:39:53.742 --> 00:39:54.422
Diego: Apocalypse.
00:39:54.442 --> 00:39:55.102
Joshua: Dark, yeah.
00:39:55.142 --> 00:39:55.862
Diego: Dark Side.
00:39:55.922 --> 00:39:56.702
Joshua: Yeah.
00:39:56.722 --> 00:39:57.862
Diego: The land of Apocalypse.
00:39:57.942 --> 00:40:00.742
Diego: And I think it's called New Genesis, like the opposite of Apocalypse.
00:40:00.762 --> 00:40:01.422
Joshua: Yeah.
00:40:01.442 --> 00:40:02.862
Diego: And you got all these gods there.
00:40:02.882 --> 00:40:06.462
Diego: That's like a part of DC that I never liked much, aside from Dark Side.
00:40:07.202 --> 00:40:13.662
Diego: But there's like all these gods who, for all intents and purposes, are more like advanced alien species or interdimensional species.
00:40:13.702 --> 00:40:19.702
Joshua: I remember like the show Young Justice, like, dwelled a little bit into the new gods.
00:40:20.382 --> 00:40:22.302
Diego: Yeah, so then you've got Dattek.
00:40:22.322 --> 00:40:24.402
Diego: I feel like DC also plays in both sides.
00:40:24.422 --> 00:40:27.542
Diego: Like there's some beings that are like pretty real.
00:40:27.562 --> 00:40:27.922
Joshua: Yeah.
00:40:28.062 --> 00:40:30.322
Diego: Like, you know, in Marvel, for instance, Mephisto.
00:40:31.102 --> 00:40:32.382
Joshua: Yeah, yeah, Mephisto.
00:40:32.522 --> 00:40:34.762
Diego: Mephisto is basically the devil.
00:40:35.802 --> 00:40:38.722
Diego: And they don't even try to explain him in any different way.
00:40:38.722 --> 00:40:39.502
Joshua: He's basic.
00:40:39.522 --> 00:40:40.902
Joshua: He's like, he's this.
00:40:40.922 --> 00:40:41.882
Diego: He's like Satan.
00:40:42.042 --> 00:40:42.562
Joshua: Yeah.
00:40:42.642 --> 00:40:44.582
Diego: And like, I'd see him even until now.
00:40:44.602 --> 00:40:47.622
Diego: Like, I just saw him appear again in, what was it?
00:40:47.642 --> 00:40:49.082
Diego: I don't think it was Blade.
00:40:49.802 --> 00:41:01.002
Diego: No, it was, it may have been this comic book of Ghost Rider and Wolverine, Weapons of Vengeance that I just read.
00:41:01.022 --> 00:41:02.362
Diego: I think that's where Mephisto appeared.
00:41:02.562 --> 00:41:09.042
Diego: And Mephisto's there, and he's like in hell, and he's chilling in hell, and he looks like the devil and stuff.
00:41:09.062 --> 00:41:10.402
Diego: Like, I don't know.
00:41:10.422 --> 00:41:11.562
Diego: You know, it's kind of weird.
00:41:11.622 --> 00:41:16.502
Joshua: And Mephisto is the devil to anybody who was watching Wandavision when it was coming out.
00:41:17.782 --> 00:41:26.282
Diego: Oh, man, Mephisto, I feel like Mephisto is a character that suddenly everyone started hearing about out of nowhere.
00:41:26.302 --> 00:41:30.662
Joshua: I feel like Mephisto now is kind of like a meme character to the Marvel universe.
00:41:30.842 --> 00:41:35.762
Diego: And the funny thing is that Marvel, it doesn't seem like Marvel has any intention of bringing him out of E Time Soon at all.
00:41:35.942 --> 00:41:37.902
Joshua: It was just like a massive troll.
00:41:37.922 --> 00:41:42.402
Joshua: Like everybody thought Mephisto was going to be in the show, and he never appeared.
00:41:42.422 --> 00:41:44.982
Diego: That was such a funny moment, man.
00:41:45.362 --> 00:41:47.822
Diego: And then then you got things like Spawn.
00:41:48.882 --> 00:41:58.122
Diego: Spawn takes a very literal, well, Spawn is a little bit strange, too, because there is a hell and there is a heaven in Spawn.
00:41:58.782 --> 00:42:05.862
Diego: And there is a god and there is a devil, for all intents and purposes, character called Malevolent Glau or something like that.
00:42:05.882 --> 00:42:06.662
Joshua: The clown guy?
00:42:06.862 --> 00:42:08.822
Diego: No, no, it's like the clown's boss.
00:42:09.502 --> 00:42:11.222
Diego: He's basically like the ruler of hell.
00:42:11.602 --> 00:42:15.002
Diego: Well, not currently, he got dethroned or whatever, and he's trying to get power back.
00:42:16.082 --> 00:42:19.562
Diego: But there is a god and there is a heaven and there's angels and there's demons.
00:42:19.582 --> 00:42:25.602
Diego: And there's these particular doorways that demons and angels can use to access to the earth realm.
00:42:25.642 --> 00:42:34.462
Joshua: Do people like, so is it so is that like the like, like the Christianity religion that like people worship on earth?
00:42:35.162 --> 00:42:35.982
Diego: Yeah, pretty much.
00:42:36.622 --> 00:42:37.862
Diego: Yeah, it's all based around that.
00:42:39.882 --> 00:42:43.902
Diego: And there is like a constant war going on between hell and heaven.
00:42:43.922 --> 00:43:04.162
Diego: But then in an outer level to all that, is this reality, this other reality of like, I guess, cosmic level reality that supersedes heaven and hell because it's like, oh, like hell are only operational on earth related to earth.
00:43:04.202 --> 00:43:04.562
Joshua: Yeah.
00:43:05.522 --> 00:43:13.142
Diego: And in earth, the ultimate authority is this thing called the green and it's run by Gaia, like the spirit of the earth.
00:43:13.162 --> 00:43:16.722
Joshua: Like the Greek giant Gaia, like that.
00:43:16.802 --> 00:43:17.702
Diego: She's like earth.
00:43:18.122 --> 00:43:18.902
Joshua: Just earth?
00:43:19.162 --> 00:43:19.602
Diego: So yeah.
00:43:20.162 --> 00:43:28.942
Diego: She has like a personification, like they show her as a character in the comic, in the stories, and she rules over everything, like she's ultimate authority over everything.
00:43:28.962 --> 00:43:29.302
Joshua: Yeah.
00:43:29.842 --> 00:43:32.642
Diego: And yeah, it's weird.
00:43:32.862 --> 00:43:43.422
Joshua: And then there's the, like, what's it called, in the Marvel universe, the, like the, like, what's Galactus' species?
00:43:43.902 --> 00:43:46.462
Diego: Oh yeah, the Celestials?
00:43:46.542 --> 00:43:47.522
Joshua: Yeah, Celestials.
00:43:47.602 --> 00:43:48.002
Diego: Right.
00:43:48.322 --> 00:43:50.262
Joshua: And like, they're like God level.
00:43:50.282 --> 00:43:51.882
Joshua: Yeah, they're basically gods.
00:43:51.902 --> 00:43:53.862
Diego: I feel like you can consume a whole planet.
00:43:54.042 --> 00:43:54.462
Joshua: Yeah.
00:43:54.482 --> 00:43:57.262
Diego: Or you can be born out of a planet and wreck the planet.
00:43:57.282 --> 00:43:58.282
Diego: You're a kind of god.
00:43:58.442 --> 00:44:00.442
Joshua: Yeah, they're basically gods.
00:44:00.982 --> 00:44:05.682
Joshua: I don't know what like the highest level in the Marvel universe is.
00:44:05.702 --> 00:44:07.462
Diego: I think there's one beyond those guys.
00:44:09.082 --> 00:44:11.002
Joshua: The Beyonder or something?
00:44:11.022 --> 00:44:12.562
Diego: I think it might be the Beyonder, yeah.
00:44:13.362 --> 00:44:13.942
Diego: I forget.
00:44:13.962 --> 00:44:20.582
Diego: I honestly, man, like one thing that I know for sure is that I love Earth bound Marvel stories.
00:44:20.842 --> 00:44:27.042
Diego: I love when it just sticks to like anything beyond that is like, it gets so far out there, man.
00:44:27.082 --> 00:44:35.122
Diego: And it's like, I feel like the wider and the broader you go into mysticism and religion and belief in gods and all that stuff, the harder it is to keep a story together.
00:44:35.182 --> 00:44:35.622
Joshua: Yeah.
00:44:35.642 --> 00:44:43.942
Diego: Like you open yourself up more and more and more to inconsistencies and like weird retcons and contradictions in your stories.
00:44:43.962 --> 00:44:44.442
Diego: You know what I mean?
00:44:45.082 --> 00:44:49.202
Diego: And so like, I don't know, I think that's why I just prefer for things to stick on, to stay to Earth.
00:44:49.222 --> 00:44:51.462
Diego: But regardless, you know, it's a reality.
00:44:51.482 --> 00:44:52.062
Diego: It is what it is.
00:44:53.742 --> 00:44:55.042
Diego: Let's end on this point.
00:44:55.982 --> 00:45:11.362
Diego: Why do you think it is that we feel in the world, that storytellers feel such a need and a desire to include religion, belief, weave that into storytelling?
00:45:11.382 --> 00:45:13.002
Diego: Because it is in a lot.
00:45:13.022 --> 00:45:15.782
Diego: I think we proved today that it is like everywhere.
00:45:16.062 --> 00:45:20.182
Joshua: I think it's either because I think it's either because of two reasons.
00:45:20.382 --> 00:45:26.322
Joshua: Because so many people include religion into their daily life.
00:45:26.402 --> 00:45:32.522
Joshua: It's such a big part of them that some people feel an obligation to include it into their story.
00:45:33.322 --> 00:45:45.122
Joshua: Or they feel an obligation to, in their own words, explain it in their own way and with their own reasons.
00:45:46.502 --> 00:45:53.402
Joshua: Or just because the person making the story actually does believe in those religions and wants to include it in their story.
00:45:53.542 --> 00:46:00.942
Diego: The funny thing is that I feel like a lot of the people who are weaving religion into stories are not actually believers.
00:46:01.062 --> 00:46:05.122
Joshua: Oh yeah, like I was talking about with that character, Joshua Graham.
00:46:05.302 --> 00:46:09.682
Joshua: The guy who created him just wanted to have an accurate depiction for a Christian.
00:46:11.102 --> 00:46:25.202
Diego: Right, I think it has to do with the fact that in human life, it's inevitable how much of a role religion or belief in some form plays.
00:46:25.922 --> 00:46:34.282
Diego: It's very rare to come across somebody that has zero inclinations towards anything at all that is religious or mystical.
00:46:34.662 --> 00:46:47.422
Diego: Even if they're atheists and they don't believe in actual gods or anything like that, it's still very generally known that people are inclined to believing something.
00:46:47.442 --> 00:46:50.122
Diego: Something inspires them, something motivates them.
00:46:50.142 --> 00:46:58.762
Diego: They feel like, I don't know if it's exactly what religions are, the picture that religions are painting, but I feel like there's something out there.
00:46:58.782 --> 00:47:00.162
Diego: A lot of people will say stuff like that.
00:47:00.542 --> 00:47:10.862
Diego: You know, and religion has helped shape human life and human history and human society, like hugely.
00:47:11.042 --> 00:47:17.782
Joshua: Like most of like most of like most of the wars back in the day were because of religion.
00:47:18.502 --> 00:47:34.842
Joshua: Like all of those like, like in the like stories of the Bible, there's a lot of like stuff of like, if you didn't believe in this religion, or you did believe in this religion, in this area of the world, then you were like an outcast, right?
00:47:35.802 --> 00:47:49.742
Diego: And but and even even now, like outside from like the atrocities of war, you have other things like it's our calendar was shaped by religion, by the Catholic Church, yeah, by like the year that they believe Jesus was born.
00:47:49.762 --> 00:47:54.702
Diego: Yeah, the names of our the days of the week in the English language in the Western world, right?
00:47:54.722 --> 00:47:56.162
Diego: Monday is moon day.
00:47:56.282 --> 00:47:56.962
Diego: Moon God.
00:47:57.502 --> 00:48:00.302
Joshua: Thursday is you got Thursday for Thor's Day.
00:48:00.382 --> 00:48:01.902
Diego: Yeah, it's like all over the place.
00:48:01.922 --> 00:48:09.682
Diego: It's really it has shaped and there's like remnants of it throughout the entire the entirety of society and modern day society.
00:48:09.702 --> 00:48:19.822
Diego: So I feel like it's such a part of human existence in human history that it's impossible almost to for it to like be done away with in our in our story.
00:48:19.842 --> 00:48:22.082
Diego: Yeah, like we're curious about belief.
00:48:22.102 --> 00:48:23.262
Diego: We're curious about religion.
00:48:23.262 --> 00:48:25.082
Diego: We're curious about the concept of gods.
00:48:25.402 --> 00:48:27.042
Diego: And it comes from different motivations.
00:48:27.062 --> 00:48:36.482
Diego: For some people, it's like, OK, so if I'm a storyteller, right, it could be something like if there is a god, then why the hell is this god allowing all these atrocities to happen on earth?
00:48:36.502 --> 00:48:38.242
Diego: Let me write a story explaining why.
00:48:38.262 --> 00:48:44.502
Diego: Yeah, you know, like maybe I'm going to tell a story that, yes, there is a god, but this god isn't as powerful as we thought that he was.
00:48:44.702 --> 00:48:45.262
Joshua: What am I?
00:48:45.482 --> 00:48:46.682
Diego: There's a there's a story.
00:48:46.702 --> 00:48:47.082
Diego: Sorry, hold on.
00:48:47.102 --> 00:48:47.842
Diego: Let me finish this point.
00:48:48.042 --> 00:48:56.342
Diego: There's a story, I forget where exactly it is, but there's a story where gods are real, but lack of belief weakens.
00:48:56.442 --> 00:48:57.662
Joshua: Yeah, right.
00:48:57.682 --> 00:48:58.642
Joshua: Yeah, I've heard about that.
00:48:58.662 --> 00:48:59.122
Diego: Yeah.
00:48:59.122 --> 00:49:03.902
Diego: And that's an interesting concept is like, it's not that the gods are not real or that they never existed.
00:49:03.922 --> 00:49:10.562
Diego: No, it's like there's their belief in them in the same way anymore, because we now have science and explanation for some of the other things.
00:49:10.922 --> 00:49:14.982
Diego: And so they they feed off of worship and no worship makes them weak.
00:49:17.402 --> 00:49:23.502
Joshua: Yeah, I was going to say like one of my favorite book series, Percy Jackson, like it's literally all about gods.
00:49:24.002 --> 00:49:31.162
Joshua: And the thing is, it is technically it has to do with like the Greek and Roman and Egyptian gods.
00:49:31.862 --> 00:49:35.062
Joshua: But they are all technically the same thing.
00:49:35.642 --> 00:49:38.682
Joshua: But they can like switch personas.
00:49:39.302 --> 00:49:42.962
Joshua: Like, for example, Zeus, or in the Greek mythology, Zeus.
00:49:44.162 --> 00:49:50.242
Joshua: He, the whole thing is that the gods have children, that they have children with humans.
00:49:50.982 --> 00:49:54.862
Joshua: But Zeus, he had a bunch of children, a bunch of different humans.
00:49:55.462 --> 00:49:59.342
Joshua: But he had a couple children with humans as Zeus.
00:49:59.882 --> 00:50:11.422
Joshua: And then he made a pact with his siblings that he wouldn't have any more children because his children and his siblings' children were the ones that were causing like all the wars.
00:50:12.022 --> 00:50:15.582
Joshua: And so they vowed to never have children with any other humans again.
00:50:16.122 --> 00:50:26.182
Joshua: So what Zeus did was that he switched personas from Zeus into Jupiter just so that he could have a child with another human.
00:50:26.282 --> 00:50:30.202
Joshua: So without breaking, yeah, without breaking the pact that he made.
00:50:30.642 --> 00:50:31.942
Diego: That's really clever, man.
00:50:31.962 --> 00:50:32.522
Diego: I like that.
00:50:32.842 --> 00:50:34.882
Diego: That's a clever bit of story telling right there.
00:50:35.282 --> 00:50:36.082
Diego: That's pretty cool.
00:50:36.102 --> 00:50:36.822
Diego: You see what I mean?
00:50:38.102 --> 00:50:46.682
Diego: I feel like the involvement of religions in our history as a species, it does make for very interesting story telling.
00:50:46.702 --> 00:50:47.102
Joshua: Yeah.
00:50:47.182 --> 00:50:47.782
Diego: It just does.
00:50:48.022 --> 00:50:55.442
Diego: I got to say though, I really would love to see a video game of these gods and all that because I want to do Anubis versus Hades.
00:50:55.502 --> 00:50:56.842
Joshua: That would be so cool.
00:50:57.262 --> 00:50:59.702
Joshua: I wonder who would win that.
00:51:00.482 --> 00:51:01.042
Joshua: I mean, maybe.
00:51:01.062 --> 00:51:02.162
Diego: Because my snake is called Anubis.
00:51:02.182 --> 00:51:03.822
Joshua: Yeah, because he has a snake named Anubis.
00:51:10.566 --> 00:51:12.066
Diego: Thank you all for joining us today.
00:51:12.306 --> 00:51:18.046
Diego: This episode on Religion and Belief in Fiction was a pretty fun conversation for us, I think.
00:51:18.066 --> 00:51:18.706
Joshua: Yeah, it was.
00:51:18.766 --> 00:51:19.146
Diego: Yeah.
00:51:19.166 --> 00:51:22.746
Diego: And I'm sure that you all have a lot of perspectives to add.
00:51:22.746 --> 00:51:25.586
Diego: So hit us up, let us know what your thoughts are on this.
00:51:25.586 --> 00:51:31.986
Diego: Why is it that Religion and Belief are such important parts of storytelling and so involved in so much of our stories?
00:51:32.486 --> 00:51:37.686
Diego: And you can do so by heading over to our website, go to geekology101.com.
00:51:38.106 --> 00:51:43.306
Diego: There, you can find information about us, learn a little bit of details about each of our lives.
00:51:43.746 --> 00:51:48.206
Diego: You can also find links to our YouTube channel, see where to subscribe to our podcast.
00:51:48.226 --> 00:51:55.166
Diego: And if you go all the way down to the bottom of the website, you can access a form to go ahead and send us your messages.
00:51:55.566 --> 00:52:02.626
Joshua: Or if you want to contact us through more traditional means, you can hit us up at g101podcast at gmail.com.
00:52:02.786 --> 00:52:03.866
Diego: Thank you all for listening.
00:52:03.886 --> 00:52:05.906
Diego: We will catch you in the next episode.
